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Old 12-27-2012, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,775 posts, read 4,133,696 times
Reputation: 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD4020 View Post
Link?
Rappoport interviews her here.
AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH Dr. Barbara Starfield: Medically Caused Death in America Jon Rappoport's Blog


Quote:
Did your 2000 JAMA study sail through peer review, or was there some opposition to publishing it?
It was rejected by the first journal that I sent it to, on the grounds that ‘it would not be interesting to readers’!

I’m aware there are reports, outside the mainstream, which conclude far more than 225,000 people in the US die every year as a result of medical treatment. For example, see the work of Carolyn Dean, Trueman Tuck, Gary Null, Martin Feldman, Debora Rasio, Dorothy Smith.


On July 26, 2000, Dr. Barbara Starfield published her landmark study, “Is US Health Really the Best in the World?” in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). At the time, Starfield was working at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:59 AM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,775 posts, read 4,133,696 times
Reputation: 4160
basic instructions and theories on oil pulling.

Prescribed For Life | Oil Pulling Therapy
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:12 AM
 
18,312 posts, read 13,835,205 times
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No link to JAMA article like you claim?

I take JAMA to mean "Journal of American Medical Association."
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,775 posts, read 4,133,696 times
Reputation: 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD4020 View Post
No link to JAMA article like you claim?

I take JAMA to mean "Journal of American Medical Association."
Gheez, can't you do anything for yourself? Here's the pdf from JAMA
http://www.jhsph.edu/sebin/s/k/2000_JAMA_Starfield.pdf

and this, if you care to pursue this line of questioning.
 

Quote:
What you are about to read is a stunning compilation of facts that documents that those who seek to abolish consumer access to natural therapies are misleading the public. Over 700,000 Americans die each year at the hands of government-sanctioned medicine, while the FDA and other government agencies pretend to protect the public by harassing those who offer safe alternatives.
A definitive review of medical peer-reviewed
http://www.webdc.com/pdfs/deathbymedicine.pdf

let's get back to the topic. I don't want this thread to get closed. It can be helpful to many and harmful to none.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,459 posts, read 10,863,512 times
Reputation: 8262
Regardless of the negative beliefs, biases, and prejudices of the naysayers, who never actually experienced oil pulling, the benefits I obtained from my several months of daily oil pulling were real to me. You can express your negative opinions till the cows come home and it won't change a thing.

The same can be said about other non mainstream medicines and practices I've experienced, wether I experienced an actual benefit or not...it is the path I have consciously chosen to follow. You can bash it, smash it, demonize it, laugh at it, and push your mainstream bias down my throat, but it won't change the path I have chosen to follow. You walk your path, and I'll walk mine.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:54 AM
 
18,312 posts, read 13,835,205 times
Reputation: 15114
Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
Gheez, can't you do anything for yourself? Here's the pdf from JAMA
http://www.jhsph.edu/sebin/s/k/2000_JAMA_Starfield.pdf

and this, if you care to pursue this line of questioning.
 



A definitive review of medical peer-reviewed
http://www.webdc.com/pdfs/deathbymedicine.pdf

let's get back to the topic. I don't want this thread to get closed. It can be helpful to many and harmful to none.
If you make a claim verify it. It is not my job to support your claims. If I refute your claims I bring evidence that is verifiable.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Wallis and Futuna
11,218 posts, read 15,465,313 times
Reputation: 16460
I guess claudhopper didn't bother to actually read Starfield's article - which was NOT a study. It was a commentary. The "data" culled from the Rappoport website isn't Starfield's data. It's data Starfield summarized, which she gathered from outside sources (in other words, she had nothing to do with the creation of the statistics themselves - she's just paraphrasing someone else, because those statistics are part of where she starts off in her op-ed piece).

The commentary about health care in the USA, and why we rated (at the time, in 2000) low in compared to specific other countries in longevity. She provides a caveat to her info, that the data she gathered, came from statistics gleaned from hospitalized patients. In other words - the death rate was specific to hospitalized patients, and not to anyone who wasn't in a hospital when they died. She understands that these statistics are skewed - but apparently Rappoport chose to ignore that in order to spin his hype.

Next - the commentary has nothing to do with oil pulling, or alternative medicine, or even complementary/adjunct medicine. It has to do with her opinion that there were a lot of medical mistakes in hospitals and that we can do a much better job by keeping more accurate records, and putting more emphasis on primary care within our existing health care system.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,775 posts, read 4,133,696 times
Reputation: 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post
I guess claudhopper didn't bother to actually read Starfield's article - which was NOT a study. It was a commentary. The "data" culled from the Rappoport website isn't Starfield's data. It's data Starfield summarized, which she gathered from outside sources (in other words, she had nothing to do with the creation of the statistics themselves - she's just paraphrasing someone else, because those statistics are part of where she starts off in her op-ed piece).

The commentary about health care in the USA, and why we rated (at the time, in 2000) low in compared to specific other countries in longevity. She provides a caveat to her info, that the data she gathered, came from statistics gleaned from hospitalized patients. In other words - the death rate was specific to hospitalized patients, and not to anyone who wasn't in a hospital when they died. She understands that these statistics are skewed - but apparently Rappoport chose to ignore that in order to spin his hype.

Next - the commentary has nothing to do with oil pulling, or alternative medicine, or even complementary/adjunct medicine. It has to do with her opinion that there were a lot of medical mistakes in hospitals and that we can do a much better job by keeping more accurate records, and putting more emphasis on primary care within our existing health care system.
No the system is corrupt, FDA is not a trusted overseer, BigPharma is akin to a criminal Mafia system. Everybody's palms are getting greased, and people are dying as a direct result of this sham/scam. It is time for the public to seek their own remedies and reject a system of disease management as opposed to cures.
Doctors are good for broken bones and the like, but they know next to nothing about health. Seek information for remedies outside of this system, if you want to learn how to be healthy in mind and body, and not be a slave to this monolith that only seeks to perpetuate itself.

http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/20...atrix-the-fda/
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,459 posts, read 10,863,512 times
Reputation: 8262
claudhopper wrote: No the system is corrupt, FDA is not a trusted overseer, BigPharma is akin to a criminal Mafia system. Everybody's palms are getting greased, and people are dying as a direct result of this sham/scam. It is time for the public to seek their own remedies and reject a system of disease management as opposed to cures.

Doctors are good for broken bones and the like, but they know next to nothing about health. Seek information for remedies outside of this system, if you want to learn how to be healthy in mind and body, and not be a slave to this monolith that only seeks to perpetuate itself.


I've had thoughts like this on numerous occasions. Thanks for posting!

The guy who did my catarract surgery did a good job. I can see much better now. I appreciate the service provided. Prior to the surgery, I tried every alternative method that I discovered to improve my vision without surgery, but none of them succeeded. The catarracts were already well developed and none traditional methods really helped me. Nonetheless, I'm not going to claim any of the methods I tried as quackery. They simply did not work for me, with the advanced state of cataract development in my eyes. They may work perfectly fine for someone else, and I wholeheartedly recommend trying every non traditional method prior to submitting to surgery. If every thing fails, you can still have the surgery, BUT, once the surgery is done you can't undo it. It's a done deal!

After the surgery, I was quite elated about the improvement in my vision, which strongly influenced one of my co-workers to have the cataract surgery on her eyes. She never had the second eye done, because the improvement in her vision after the surgery on the first eye was so minimal, that she didn't want to spend the money and go thru the surgical process on the second eye. Although she was disappointed with the results of the surgery she never called me a liar or calimed that I fed her a line of BS. She had the maturity to recognize that everyone is different. What works for one person, wether the treatment is traditional or non-traditional does not necessarily work for some one else.

However earlier in this thread, simply because I wrote that I was unable to perceive any noticable benefit from the use of energy wands, someone suggested that my chiropractor friend fed me a line of BS about the healing benefits that some of his patients obtained. Talk about jumping to conclusions. The person making that claim doesn't know my chiropractor friend from Adam, nor the full details of the situation, yet the habitual mind pattern of that person is to automatically think in terms of BS.

Last edited by CosmicWizard; 12-27-2012 at 03:13 PM..
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,775 posts, read 4,133,696 times
Reputation: 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
claudhopper wrote: No the system is corrupt, FDA is not a trusted overseer, BigPharma is akin to a criminal Mafia system. Everybody's palms are getting greased, and people are dying as a direct result of this sham/scam. It is time for the public to seek their own remedies and reject a system of disease management as opposed to cures.

Doctors are good for broken bones and the like, but they know next to nothing about health. Seek information for remedies outside of this system, if you want to learn how to be healthy in mind and body, and not be a slave to this monolith that only seeks to perpetuate itself.

I've had thoughts like this on numerous occasions. Thanks for posting!

The guy who did my catarract surgery did a good job. I can see much better now. I appreciate the service provided. Prior to the surgery, I tried every alternative method that I discovered to improve my vision without surgery, but none of them succeeded. The catarracts were already well developed and none traditional methods really helped me. Nonetheless, I'm not going to claim any of the methods I tried as quackery. They simply did not work for me, with the advanced state of cataract development in my eyes. They may work perfectly fine for someone else, and I wholeheartedly recommend trying every non traditional method prior to submitting to surgery. If every thing fails, you can still have the surgery, BUT, once the surgery is done you can't undo it. It's a done deal!

After the surgery, I was quite elated about the improvement in my vision, which strongly influenced one of my co-workers to have the cataract surgery on her eyes. She never had the second eye done, because the improvement in her vision after the surgery on the first eye was so minimal, that she didn't want to spend the money and go thru the surgical process on the second eye. Although she was disappointed with the results of the surgery she never called me a liar or calimed that I fed her a line of BS. She had the maturity to recognize that everyone is different. What works for one person, wether the treatment is traditional or non-traditional does not necessarily work for some one else.

However earlier in this thread, simply because I wrote that I was unable to perceive any noticable benefit from the use of energy wands, someone suggested that my chiropractor friend fed me a line of BS about the healing benefits that some of his patients obtained. Talk about jumping to conclusions. The person making that claim doesn't know my chiropractor friend from Adam, nor the full details of the situation, yet the habitual mind pattern of that person is to automatically think in terms of BS.
I'm glad you received help when needed Cosmic. I am talking about the numbers that don't, or are harmed by our current system. It is fraught with fraud and waste. You sought alternatives that didn't work for you, that's fine, it happens. Not all naturopaths will reach the same conclusions or treatments, there is a wide variety outside of the system. That's what's so great about it, you are in control, and you have options.
I am talking more about life expectancy and overall health.
Quote:
From medical errors to adverse drug reactions to unnecessary procedures, heart disease, cancer deaths and infant mortality, the authors took statistics straight from the most respected medical and scientific journals and investigative reports by the Institutes of Medicine (IOM), and showed that on the whole, American medicine caused more harm than good. In 2010, years after the original article was written, an analysis in the New England Journal of Medicine6 found that, despite efforts to improve patient safety in the past few years, the health care system hasn't changed much at all.
Instead, 18 percent of patients were harmed by medical care (some repeatedly) and over 63 percent of the injuries could have been prevented. In nearly 2.5 percent of these cases, the problems caused or contributed to a person's death. In another 3 percent, patients suffered from permanent injury, while over 8 percent experienced life-threatening issues, such as severe bleeding during surgery.
In all there were over 25 injuries per 100 admissions!
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