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Old 07-05-2011, 08:10 PM
 
3,195 posts, read 3,366,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Actually, I don't want the days of the empire back. I look at it this way, if I want to live under the rule of someone else's nation, I will move to that nation myself. Maybe I'm looking at it from a Black man's perspective, but that's just how I look at it. Colonialism is used as a beneficiary to the ruling empire. The colonized is viewed as secondary or happenstance beneficiary, if at all.
Was actually surprised when in South Africa a few years back to have been told a few times and almost always by black women that they preferred the time under the previous white government(apartheid)
Their issues appeared to all be around the escalating crime in the townships where they claimed to feel far less safe these days.

Must be somewhat of a disapointment though to see a colonial regeme replaced by a person of that nation whose main intent is to enrich himself his family and lastly in the African context tribe.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:39 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,221 posts, read 23,725,878 times
Reputation: 11662
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
You mean they do actual journalism?

The national enquirer broke the john edwards story, among others which the msm either ignored or missed.
Yea, I'm with you. The National Enquirer is kind of gaudy and goes towards sensationalism, but it still does cover stuff that's interesting sometimes (thanks to its mechanism of openly soliciting tips for money). The National Enquirer was also responsible for breaking out Palin's daughter's premarital pregnancy and Palin's own alleged affair with her husband's business partner. It's not quite studied analysis of big issues, but it is stuff that people are interested in and have potentially strong repercussions.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:00 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 21 days ago)
 
48,291 posts, read 45,576,705 times
Reputation: 15368
Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Was actually surprised when in South Africa a few years back to have been told a few times and almost always by black women that they preferred the time under the previous white government(apartheid)
Their issues appeared to all be around the escalating crime in the townships where they claimed to feel far less safe these days.

Must be somewhat of a disapointment though to see a colonial regeme replaced by a person of that nation whose main intent is to enrich himself his family and lastly in the African context tribe.
It is said to see her think like that.

And to be honest, apartheid era South Africa wasn't that safe for Blacks either. At least under the new South Africa, Blacks can travel where they want without needing a passbook, attend any school they want, the freedoms that I as a Black man in America are enjoying now. I don't want South Africa to go back to apartheid. That was a corrupt regime in itself and very racist. Not that the new South Africa is that much better, but to me, if a government tells me that because of my race, I have to be in a certain place and can't be in another place, I will either leave that nation forever, or die fighting for a change. It's either my way or no way.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:20 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,685 posts, read 8,499,017 times
Reputation: 7039
Well looking at the 14 remaining British colonies (or "overseas territories" as they are now termed) it is obvious that they have progressed tremendously under British rule - the Cayman Islands and Bermuda for instance are among the countries with highest GDPs and standards of living in the world. With a very few exceptions almost all of them are self sustaining through tourism and offshore banking so they don't really cost the British anything.

Oh and British Overseas Territories are largely self governing over domestic affairs, the British government only controls defense, foreign affairs, citizenship, court of final appeals (the British Privy Council), and oversight of the police, the annual budget, and the civil service. The days of direct rule ended a long, long time ago and by and large most are content with their present status as seen in the recent poll where 70% of Bermudians polled were against independence, a mere 16% were in favor.

Even IF Jamaica were to revert to British rule - as Newfoundland did in 1934* and Anguilla in 1969** - it would be largely symbolic anyways. As stated above, British Overseas Territories are self governing and as such it would only benefit Jamaica and not the British (who would have to pay for the cost of infrastructure upgrades, crime control, etc).
* Newfoundland become independent in 1907 but reverted back to British rule due to economic difficulties in 1934. Newfoundland later became a Canadian province by a very slim margin following a referendum held in 1949.
** The tiny Caribbean island of Anguilla declared independence from Britain in 1967 over a dispute regarding the island being annexed by St. Kitts & Nevis (Anguilla was opposed). In 1969 British Army paratroopers, Royal Marines, and a force of London bobbies "retook" the island (there was no opposition) and the islanders voted to formally revert to British rule in 1980.

Last edited by WIHS2006; 07-06-2011 at 03:30 PM..
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:28 PM
 
3,195 posts, read 3,366,117 times
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Indeed. Bermudia is a perfect example of folk wishing to remain British and why not?
Gibraltar is insisting although one has the impression that London would prefer to be shot of the rock.
Falkland Islands are in no hurry to be the Malvinnas and learn Spanish either.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:36 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,685 posts, read 8,499,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Indeed. Bermudia is a perfect example of folk wishing to remain British and why not?
Gibraltar is insisting although one has the impression that London would prefer to be shot of the rock.
Falkland Islands are in no hurry to be the Malvinnas and learn Spanish either.
Exactly. Why not? They have nothing to gain, and quite a bit to lose from independence. If the people want to remain British than that is their right, and the British government should respect their desires to remain British. Gibraltarians for instance are said to be more British than the British themselves! I think that is a special thing and I am glad David Cameron's government is paving the way for closer ties between Britain and the Overseas Territories rather than casting them aside as mere relics of a colonial past like Blair, Brown, and Labour did. As Overseas Territories Minister Henry Bellingham said: they are an integral part of the British community. He also mentioned that 90% of Britain's unique ecosystem is found in the Overseas Territories amongst many other facts about how they are special.

They have full British citizenship but don't have to pay British taxes.
They can go anywhere in the European Union visa free.
They get heavily subsidized college education at British colleges and universities.
The British defend them from Argentina and Spain (and anyone else).
The British bail them out when they have economic troubles (as has recently been done in the Turks & Caicos).
The British provide specialist support to their police forces.
Need a new school? A hospital? An airport? No worries, the British taxpayers will pay for it! (as is currently the case with St. Helena's airport that is being constructed)

I once wondered why Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, etc were so opposed to independence and now I know why. There's nothing in it for them and quite frankly I would be opposed to independence as well.

Why become independent when you have all these benefits? How can I get in on this deal?

Last edited by WIHS2006; 07-06-2011 at 03:46 PM..
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Scotland
7,972 posts, read 10,104,922 times
Reputation: 4093
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
Exactly. Why not? They have nothing to gain, and quite a bit to lose from independence.

They have full British citizenship but don't have to pay British taxes.
They can go anywhere in the European Union visa free.
They get heavily subsidized college education at British colleges and universities.
The British defend them from Argentina and Spain (and anyone else).
The British bail them out when they have economic troubles (as has recently been done in the Turks & Caicos).
The British provide specialist support to their police forces.
Need a new school? A hospital? An airport? No worries, the British taxpayers will pay for it! (as is currently the case with St. Helena's airport that is being constructed)

I once wondered why Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, etc were so opposed to independence and now I know why. There's nothing in it for them and quite frankly I would be opposed to independence as well.

Why become independent when you have all these benefits? How can I get in on this deal?
well we (britain) did colonize them, so we are stuck with them, our own fault!
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:46 PM
 
3,195 posts, read 3,366,117 times
Reputation: 1765
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
Exactly. Why not? They have nothing to gain, and quite a bit to lose from independence.

They have full British citizenship but don't have to pay British taxes.
They can go anywhere in the European Union visa free.
They get heavily subsidized college education at British colleges and universities.
The British defend them from Argentina and Spain (and anyone else).
The British bail them out when they have economic troubles (as has recently been done in the Turks & Caicos).
The British provide specialist support to their police forces.
Need a new school? A hospital? An airport? No worries, the British taxpayers will pay for it! (as is currently the case with St. Helena's airport that is being constructed)

I once wondered why Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, etc were so opposed to independence and now I know why. There's nothing in it for them and quite frankly I would be opposed to independence as well.

Why become independent when you have all these benefits? How can I get in on this deal?
Hence the reason why most those islands of the West Indies may well have done better to remain British and not allowing national pride to over rule smartness.
Don't think the French islands of Martinique or Guadeloppe are in any hurry. Getting French social security living in such a place one can only assume must be an ever to slight dissentive to work?
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Texas
43,582 posts, read 52,760,258 times
Reputation: 70904
Lots of people (even this country) would prefer security over freedom.

Last edited by stan4; 07-06-2011 at 03:57 PM..
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:57 PM
 
3,195 posts, read 3,366,117 times
Reputation: 1765
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Lots of people (even this country) would prefer security than freedom.
I think that says it all. After all where is the freedom if a person is scared to go about normal life or scared for their family?
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