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Old 09-09-2011, 07:57 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Brazil seems like a mixed-raced Utopia, but I think below the surface alot of the tensions can be traced back to a very racist history, like the US, which still persists to some extent today. I hope it's not so much the case today, though. I think blacks are still far more represented in the favelas of Rio than in the wealthy condos...but yes, I think Brazillians are less race conscious because they are mostly mixed, and they were never as concerned with keeping 'racial purity' as the other poster said.

 
Old 09-10-2011, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Fortaleza, Brazil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Brazil seems like a mixed-raced Utopia, but I think below the surface alot of the tensions can be traced back to a very racist history, like the US, which still persists to some extent today. I hope it's not so much the case today, though. I think blacks are still far more represented in the favelas of Rio than in the wealthy condos...but yes, I think Brazillians are less race conscious because they are mostly mixed, and they were never as concerned with keeping 'racial purity' as the other poster said.
The mixing is the key to understand the race question in Brazil. The only way we can understand race relations in Brazil is if we understand how the Portuguese colonizers handled the race issues. The Portuguese were the "masters of racial mixing". They mixed with natives (amerindians) and with blacks much more than any other European colonizer, much more than the Spaniards, the French or the Brits.

Since the very beginning of the colonization, in the 16th century, there was racial mixing. The first Portuguese "adventurers" who came to Brazil were single guys, with no wife and kids. They arrived here and found a lot of NUDE indigenous people (the original indigenous peoples of Brazil never used clothes before the arrival of the first colonizers). Well... You can imagine what happened... Those single guys from Portugal, with no wife, all those nude indigenous girls, in a tropical paradise... And the indigenous societies were very "liberal" about sex... Racial mixing started early in Brazil's history.

There is a collective consciousness in all Brazilians about our mixed nature. We learn in the schools, since our early ages, that we are a mixed nation. We learn in the school that nobody in this country has any "racial purity", and that everyone is a little bit European, a little bit Indigenous and a little bit African.

So, this is the reason why people don't care about race. This is the reason why people have friends of all skin color shades. Because we know we are all mixed.
 
Old 09-10-2011, 11:41 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 14 days ago)
 
5,179 posts, read 8,025,013 times
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Its important to understand that the concept of race in Brazil probably doesn't exist. It appears that Brazil's 'racial categories' are more similar to those that appear in Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico and even in Cuba. In those places, with some minor differences, race in the US sense doesn't really exist. They are more into skin color and physical features to describe a person's appearance, but there is no notion of such appearances having to require the person to acquire a particular subculture. If anything, everyone practices the same culture, with the differences being more along social-class lines rather than racial or skin color.

In fact, if you notice, in many Latin American countries they don't ever refer to such descriptions as race, but rather skin color or ethnicity.

Mixture is just the lay of the land in the Americas. Very few places developed a rigid racist culture like the US did in the past, so very few places can be fully understood when seen from a US perspective. One has to be able to put aside how they view the world from the US perspective to fully understand how much of the rest of the world functions and see things.
 
Old 09-10-2011, 11:47 AM
 
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There's a confusion here between Brazilian nationalism that claims that all Brazilians are mixed, dance Samba and all are equally Brazilian and reality.

Most of Brazil's elite are very recent immigrants, some married to old families of Portuguese origin. The large wave of immigration is recent, there are still millions of immigrants that were born in Portugal, Italy, Spain, etc, a very large Jewish community, etc.
 
Old 09-10-2011, 11:50 AM
 
2,227 posts, read 4,433,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio84 View Post
Its important to understand that the concept of race in Brazil probably doesn't exist. It appears that Brazil's 'racial categories' are more similar to those that appear in Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico and even in Cuba. In those places, with some minor differences, race in the US sense doesn't really exist. They are more into skin color and physical features to describe a person's appearance, but there is no notion of such appearances having to require the person to acquire a particular subculture. If anything, everyone practices the same culture, with the differences being more along social-class lines rather than racial or skin color.

In fact, if you notice, in many Latin American countries they don't ever refer to such descriptions as race, but rather skin color or ethnicity.

Mixture is just the lay of the land in the Americas. Very few places developed a rigid racist culture like the US did in the past, so very few places can be fully understood when seen from a US perspective. One has to be able to put aside how they view the world from the US perspective to fully understand how much of the rest of the world functions and see things.
-----

Race is far more important in Latin America than in the US.
 
Old 09-10-2011, 04:54 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 14 days ago)
 
5,179 posts, read 8,025,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post
-----

Race is far more important in Latin America than in the US.
Sure.

This explains why a white Latin American will have his/her whiteness challenged in the US (even the ones who are descendants of recent European immigrants to Latin America), but white Americans are accepted as white pretty much everywhere in Latin America.

Would you care to explain that paradox?

There's more, so let me know if you want me to continue.
 
Old 09-10-2011, 05:16 PM
 
4,454 posts, read 5,742,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalaMan View Post
The mixing is the key to understand the race question in Brazil. The only way we can understand race relations in Brazil is if we understand how the Portuguese colonizers handled the race issues. The Portuguese were the "masters of racial mixing". They mixed with natives (amerindians) and with blacks much more than any other European colonizer, much more than the Spaniards, the French or the Brits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalaMan View Post

Since the very beginning of the colonization, in the 16th century, there was racial mixing. The first Portuguese "adventurers" who came to Brazil were single guys, with no wife and kids. They arrived here and found a lot of NUDE indigenous people (the original indigenous peoples of Brazil never used clothes before the arrival of the first colonizers). Well... You can imagine what happened... Those single guys from Portugal, with no wife, all those nude indigenous girls, in a tropical paradise... And the indigenous societies were very "liberal" about sex... Racial mixing started early in Brazil's history.


So, this is the reason why people don't care about race. This is the reason why people have friends of all skin color shades. Because we know we are all mixed.
I believe the Spanish, French and British race mixed with the natives just as much as the Portugese in the Americas.

I dont live in the Americas and live in Australia and even this country race mixing with the natives was very common and even today very common. Anyway an majority of natives here are mixed and not many racially pure Aborigines around except for an few remote and isolated communities. In much of eastern Australia apart for parts of far Northern Australia it is very rare to see Aborigines that look racially pure. Even 100 or 150 years ago most Aborigines have some European blood in them. In Tasmania there has not been an racially pure Aborigine there since the 1860s as the last pure Aborigine died there. In the South East part of Australia the last of the pure Aborigines were honoured and respected by the white communitiy and given metal plates to wear which they wore with pride.

here is an pic from the 1860s of the last pure Aborigines in Tasmaina attending an governers ball.

Last edited by other99; 09-10-2011 at 05:36 PM..
 
Old 09-10-2011, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,464,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio84 View Post
Sure.

This explains why a white Latin American will have his/her whiteness challenged in the US (even the ones who are descendants of recent European immigrants to Latin America), but white Americans are accepted as white pretty much everywhere in Latin America.

Would you care to explain that paradox?

There's more, so let me know if you want me to continue.
I guess you most of not heard of the racial classifications of Latin America.

Racial Classifications in Latin America
 
Old 09-10-2011, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Fortaleza, Brazil
2,566 posts, read 4,652,276 times
Reputation: 1562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post
There's a confusion here between Brazilian nationalism that claims that all Brazilians are mixed, dance Samba and all are equally Brazilian and reality.

Most of Brazil's elite are very recent immigrants, some married to old families of Portuguese origin. The large wave of immigration is recent, there are still millions of immigrants that were born in Portugal, Italy, Spain, etc, a very large Jewish community, etc.
Oh, of course... You are the "specialist" in Brazil. You know more about Brazil than a Brazilian like me, who studied the history of my country in depth.

The ones you call "very recent immigrants" came to Brazil more than 100 years ago, in the end of the 19th century, and beginning of the 20th century. Mostly Germans and Italians. Those "very recent immigrants" are all dead now, and the only survivors are their descendants, in the third, fourth and fifth generation. When they arrived here, they were very poor peasants, and Brazil already had a traditional elite, composed by descendants of the Portuguese, with white or olive skin and racially mixed - some in a lesser extent, others in a greater extent - with the indigenous and the blacks.

As I explained in a post in the previous page, and I won't repeat, almost ALL the Italians had mixed with native Brazilians, if not in the first generation, but surely in the second, third and fourth generations.

There is no such thing as "pure white Brazilian". Well, in fact, there are a few...The very few "pure white Brazilians" live in the rural areas of Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina and Parana states, the three southernmost states, and are descendants of Germans. Many of the descendants of Germans had mixed, just like the Italians, but there are some cases of "non-mixing" in some rural areas of the three states in the extreme south.

You like it or not, Brazil DOES constitute the "Racial Utopia" that annoy very much all the racists around the world, who kick and scream when they realize this, and try to deny the reality. It's very difficult to them to accept that there is a country in the world where all the "races" live in harmony, and there are no race lines dividing people.
 
Old 09-10-2011, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Fortaleza, Brazil
2,566 posts, read 4,652,276 times
Reputation: 1562
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
I guess you most of not heard of the racial classifications of Latin America.

Racial Classifications in Latin America
You talk as if Latin America was a monolithic block.

Racial relations in countries like Brazil, Colombia, Venezuela and Dominican Republic have nothing to do with racial relations in Mexico, Peru, Bolivia or Argentina...
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