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Old 09-10-2011, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Fortaleza, Brazil
2,564 posts, read 4,650,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by other99 View Post
I believe the Spanish, French and British race mixed with the natives just as much as the Portugese in the Americas.

I dont live in the Americas and live in Australia and even this country race mixing with the natives was very common and even today very common. Anyway an majority of natives here are mixed and not many racially pure Aborigines around except for an few remote and isolated communities. In much of eastern Australia apart for parts of far Northern Australia it is very rare to see Aborigines that look racially pure. Even 100 or 150 years ago most Aborigines have some European blood in them. In Tasmania there has not been an racially pure Aborigine there since the 1860s as the last pure Aborigine died there. In the South East part of Australia the last of the pure Aborigines were honoured and respected by the white communitiy and given metal plates to wear which they wore with pride.
The big difference between Australia and Brazil is that the demographic density of Aborigines was very small, compared with the high demographic density of Amerindians in Brazil, and the influx of white colonizers in Australia was very fast, with a very big number of white families arriving in Australia in a just few decades.

In Brazil, the process was different. During all the 16th century, and probably during a great part of the 17th century, the number of "pure Amerindians" in Brazil was much bigger than the number of Portuguese colonizers. And the majority of the colonizers were not the "family guy". They didn't came to Brazil with wife and kids. They married (or just cohabited) with Amerindian women. So, around the year of 1690, there was an enormous number of Brazilians who were mixed of Portuguese and Amerindian. And this process continued in the 18th century. Never in the colonial history of Brazil the "pure whites" became a majority of the population. The recently arrived Portuguese, with no racial admixture, always were a small minority of the population, in all centuries and decades.

 
Old 09-10-2011, 07:55 PM
 
4,454 posts, read 5,740,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalaMan View Post
The big difference between Australia and Brazil is that the demographic density of Aborigines was very small, compared with the high demographic density of Amerindians in Brazil
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalaMan View Post
, and the influx of white colonizers in Australia was very fast, with a very big number of white families arriving in Australia in a just few decades.

In Brazil, the process was different. During all the 16th century, and probably during a great part of the 17th century, the number of "pure Amerindians" in Brazil was much bigger than the number of Portuguese colonizers. And the majority of the colonizers were not the "family guy". They didn't came to Brazil with wife and kids. They married (or just cohabited) with Amerindian women. So, around the year of 1690, there was an enormous number of Brazilians who were mixed of Portuguese and Amerindian. And this process continued in the 18th century. Never in the colonial history of Brazil the "pure whites" became a majority of the population. The recently arrived Portuguese, with no racial admixture, always were a small minority of the population, in all centuries and decades.
I disagree that the number of Aborigines in Australia was very small at the time of European settlement. An vast majority of Aborigines died within an few years of contact with Euopeans.

As the rapid decline in Aboriginal population took place, few whites tried to suggest reasons. One who did so in 1886 described the grim process and some of its causes:

[SIZE=2]Experience shows that a populous town will kill out the tribes which live near enough to visit it daily in from two to ten years ... in more sparsely-settled country the process is somewhat different and more gradual, but it leads to the same end. In the bush many tribes have disappeared, and the rest are disappearing. Towns destroy by drunkenness and debauchery; in the country, from fifteen to five-and-twenty per cent fall by the rifle; the tribe then submits, and diseases of European origin complete the process of extermination. [/SIZE]
Australia - Aborigines And European Settlers

In the past many people that have Aboriginal ansestors denied or were ashamed of their herritate, esp the light skinned ones but these days more and more people are claiming Aboriginal heritage.

I sure many tribes in Brazil had rapid population declines due to diseases introduced by Europeans and even in Mexico an majority of natives died off due to small pox but the natives survived in the end.
 
Old 09-10-2011, 08:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalaMan View Post
Oh, of course... You are the "specialist" in Brazil. You know more about Brazil than a Brazilian like me, who studied the history of my country in depth.

The ones you call "very recent immigrants" came to Brazil more than 100 years ago, in the end of the 19th century, and beginning of the 20th century. Mostly Germans and Italians. Those "very recent immigrants" are all dead now, and the only survivors are their descendants, in the third, fourth and fifth generation. When they arrived here, they were very poor peasants, and Brazil already had a traditional elite, composed by descendants of the Portuguese, with white or olive skin and racially mixed - some in a lesser extent, others in a greater extent - with the indigenous and the blacks.

As I explained in a post in the previous page, and I won't repeat, almost ALL the Italians had mixed with native Brazilians, if not in the first generation, but surely in the second, third and fourth generations.

There is no such thing as "pure white Brazilian". Well, in fact, there are a few...The very few "pure white Brazilians" live in the rural areas of Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina and Parana states, the three southernmost states, and are descendants of Germans. Many of the descendants of Germans had mixed, just like the Italians, but there are some cases of "non-mixing" in some rural areas of the three states in the extreme south.

You like it or not, Brazil DOES constitute the "Racial Utopia" that annoy very much all the racists around the world, who kick and scream when they realize this, and try to deny the reality. It's very difficult to them to accept that there is a country in the world where all the "races" live in harmony, and there are no race lines dividing people.
I hear even an majority of Japanese Brazlians born in brazil today have an parent that is not ethnic Japanese and I know Brazil has the largest Japanese ethnic population outside Japan.

I guess the only thing that truly divided Brazil is the income levels as there is an huge gap with the rich and poor.
 
Old 09-10-2011, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,943 posts, read 36,144,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by other99 View Post
I dont live in the Americas and live in Australia and even this country race mixing with the natives was very common and even today very common. Anyway an majority of natives here are mixed and not many racially pure Aborigines around except for an few remote and isolated communities. In much of eastern Australia apart for parts of far Northern Australia it is very rare to see Aborigines that look racially pure. Even 100 or 150 years ago most Aborigines have some European blood in them.
I saw a ton of very aboriginal-looking aboriginals in Darwin, when I went there.

But I think I know what you mean, as native Americans in the U.S. are often mixed.

I think the main difference though is that aboriginal or native American have very strong ties to that racial identity. It's a stronger identity for them.

Whereas Brazilians really do first and foremost identify with being Brazilian.
 
Old 09-10-2011, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Fortaleza, Brazil
2,564 posts, read 4,650,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by other99 View Post
I sure many tribes in Brazil had rapid population declines due to diseases introduced by Europeans and even in Mexico an majority of natives died off due to small pox but the natives survived in the end.
There were wars against some indigenous tribes, and massacres. This was the main reason for population decline in some tribes. But also there were many tribes that were allied of the Portuguese, and even helped the Portuguese to combat the French and the Dutch that tried to take control of portions of Brazil. And also there were the famous "aldeamentos" of the Jesuit priests, where many Amerindians converted to the Catholic religion lived.

The importance of the Amerindian in the formation of the Brazilian society is such a great that, in the end of the 18th century, around the year 1799, all the chroniclers reported that the most spoken language in Brazil was the "Lingua Geral", a standardized version of the indigenous Tupi dialects, created by the Jesuits. Only during the 19th century the Portuguese language became the language of Brazil, eliminating the use of "Lingua Geral".


Quote:
Originally Posted by other99 View Post
I hear even an majority of Japanese Brazlians born in brazil today have an parent that is not ethnic Japanese and I know Brazil has the largest Japanese ethnic population outside Japan.
The Japanese in Brazil had mixed too, almost as much as the Italians. I dated a girl some years ago who had a mother of Japanese descent and a father of Italian descent. She had Japanese and Italian surnames. Just one more case of total racial mixing in Brazil...
 
Old 09-10-2011, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,943 posts, read 36,144,182 times
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The Japanese-Brazilians who come to Japan are some of the sexiest Asians who exist on planet earth, by the way.

What's interesting about that is that I use to live in Sao Paulo for a time, and they didn't stand out quite so much there as they do here in Japan!
 
Old 09-10-2011, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,460,458 times
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[quote=MalaMan;20827601]
Quote:
You talk as if Latin America was a monolithic block.
I don't see what so monolithic about it. It shows the different racial classifications of Latin America.

Quote:
Racial relations in countries like Brazil, Colombia, Venezuela and Dominican Republic have nothing to do with racial relations in Mexico, Peru, Bolivia or Argentina...
Never said every country had the same exact racial relations.
 
Old 09-11-2011, 09:24 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,352,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
I saw a ton of very aboriginal-looking aboriginals in Darwin, when I went there.

But I think I know what you mean, as native Americans in the U.S. are often mixed.

I think the main difference though is that aboriginal or native American have very strong ties to that racial identity. It's a stronger identity for them.

Whereas Brazilians really do first and foremost identify with being Brazilian.
There are still many aboriginal people with little or no European blood in Western Australia, the Northern Territory and Outback Queensland. Many of them still speak their tribal language, although rarely live the traditional hunter-gatherer lifestyle.
 
Old 09-11-2011, 12:00 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 11 days ago)
 
5,167 posts, read 8,019,848 times
Reputation: 4264
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
I guess you most of not heard of the racial classifications of Latin America.

Racial Classifications in Latin America
Of course I've known about them, but I also know that:

(A) In all Latin American countries the categories developed differently.

And most importantly:

(B) There is no expectation that a person should act/embrace a certain way of being simply due to their race.

(C) Racial categories in Latin America are more descriptions of a person's appearance in the same way that weight or height is seen pretty much everywhere in the world.

As you very well know, that's not how race is seen in the US because in the US, race is much more important than in Latin America.

In the US:

(A) Racial purity has historically been the number one worry, especially among the white segment of society. This is why they always question a white Latin American's whiteness, don't want to accept a slightly mixed race person that looks white as if they were 'true' whites. After all, doing that would be so less racist.

(B) People assume that because a person is of a certain race, they must like certain music, eat certain food, think and live in certain ways. This is why there is a need to hyphenate any American that is not white; almost to show that yes, they are Americans but... hmmm. Sometimes its done among whites such as Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans; but in official forms, those hyphens disappear except for the non-whites. This is also the reason Americans often make a big deal about a couple of one race adopting an American kid from another race. They often think have to think of the race-based culture of that kid despite that kid being American. That is one thing that doesn't exist anywhere in Latin America. Most people, regardless of race, share pretty much the same culture.

(C) Racial categories are not mere descriptions, but assumed to be almost different types of humans. Even though many people don't say it, I often get the impression that many (perhaps most) Americans see the different races as if they were different species.

And last but not least, mixed race people are almost expected to identify with the non-white race they are mixed with. Even if they do identify as mixed race, people will often label them in one category and that category is almost always the non-white one. In Latin America, mixed race people are accepted as mixed race.

Heck, even president Obama can't go around claiming his mixed origins too often, lest people think he's being in denial of being 'black.' Yet, he really is mixed!

But, I think the most obvious sign that clearly shows where race is more important is right here on the City-Data forum. Have you not asked yourself why almost (to not say all) every race thread has been started by Americans?

There are enough foreigners here to at least merit a few race threads created by them, had race been so big for them, especially among the Latin Americans. But noooo, we don't see that, do we?

Its only Americans that start these types of threads and there is a reason for that!


See my point?
 
Old 09-12-2011, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Fortaleza, Brazil
2,564 posts, read 4,650,797 times
Reputation: 1562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio84 View Post
But, I think the most obvious sign that clearly shows where race is more important is right here on the City-Data forum. Have you not asked yourself why almost (to not say all) every race thread has been started by Americans?

There are enough foreigners here to at least merit a few race threads created by them, had race been so big for them, especially among the Latin Americans. But noooo, we don't see that, do we?

Its only Americans that start these types of threads and there is a reason for that!


See my point?

I confess that the first few times I got to visit American forums on the Internet, I found it very strange that there were so many threads and discussions about race. In the Brazilian forums on the Internet it's extremely rare to see any thread or discussion about race. It's a largely ignored subject.
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