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View Poll Results: Is raced discussed in The Americas 24/7
Yes, Latin Americas think about race all the time 1 33.33%
No, this board has been invaded by race extremists. 2 66.67%
Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-21-2013, 08:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SdIl View Post
I'm not sure. The Southern Europeans just mated a lot with the native Indian tribes of that region. A lot of people south of the U.S., are part African, too, like in the Caribbean and Brazil.

The U.S. and Canada have people of mixed heritage too, but not to the extent south of the U.S.
That's not true. The USA is just as mixed, if not more mixed. The USA has always had a lot of race mixing.

 
Old 08-21-2013, 08:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Why are you assuming I'm not from the United States, that I don't currently live in the United States and that I haven't read various books from different perspectives on this subject?


That only happened on the Caribbean islands and most of them died from diseases the indigenous population had no antibodies for, since they were never expose to them until the encounter. Simple stuff like the common cold was extremely devastating for entire tribes. A single Spaniard sneezed while visiting a tribe, a week later the entire tribe was well on its way to extinction and no one knew why. That was the number one killer.

Despite that, the indigenous population remain very large and much of their genetic blueprint is still present in the majority of the Latin American population, even in the Spanish Caribbean (to a lesser extent in Cuba, greater in Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico), as mitochondrial DNA studies have proven.

The one's that truly almost wiped out the native american population was the British in North America. Remember that the British colonialist once took many blankets and infected them with the smallpox virus, then gave them as "gifts" to the native americans who were apparently shivering from the cold. The latter accepted them as act of kindness, not knowing it was a genocide in the making.

Today the native american population of both the USA and Canada hover around 1%, completely unacceptable for countries on former Indigenous ruled land and today majority white. Compare that with Mexico (11%), Peru (48%), Ecuador (25%), Guatemala (40%). Add to that the mestizo/mixed majority in those and every other country and things become quite clear.

Through out Latin America I have met descendants of the indigenous people, both mixed and pure blooded, by simply walking around. I have yet to bump into a native american here in the US. Such a shame. I've been to their casinos, though. lol


I guess you haven't heard of:


http://mibahia.net/wp-content/upload...largeimage.jpg
Porfirio Lobo, current president of Honduras.


http://topnews.in/files/hugo-chavez_0.jpg
Hugo Chavez, current president of Venezuela.


http://blogs.educared.org/politicasd...08/Ollanta.jpg
Ollanta Humala, current president of Peru. Notice that neither Ollanta nor Humala are European names.


http://img.timeinc.net/time/2008/tim...vo_morales.jpg
Evo Morales, current president of Bolivia and Aymara, if I'm not mistaken. He is an Indigenous, but I'm not 100% if he's Aymara, though I think so.


http://www.noticiassin.com/wp-conten...orrupcion2.jpg
Leonel Fernandez, current president of Dominican Republic.

Do any of these men look white to you? They sure don't to me and many of these countries had the first non-white president practically a century before the US did and have had many more since! How does the US stands on that front, despite all the Affirmative Action laws to force its people to act in ways they wouldn't if left to their own decision?

As a bonus, look in what other category has many Latin American countries beaten the USA:


http://www.opciones.cu/file/img/2012...a-rousseff.jpg
Dilma Rousseff, current female president of Brazil.


http://aeronoticias.com.pe/fotonotic...9/bachelet.jpg
Michelle Bachelet, ex-president of Chile.


http://alinstantenoticias.com/portal...irchner_04.jpg
Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, current president of Argentina.

When was the last time the US had a woman president? What about a vice president? Latin America has been there and done that!

There are many more, so let me know if you're interesting in learning more about this.


Have you ever seen Latin American television? While its true that in some countries there is a noticeable lack of "Afro-Latinos" (in some because they hardly have any black or mulatto people, as is the case in Argentina), in the countries that do have a sizable amount, the television has quite a few, in many countries even a majority of "Afro-Latinos." This is especially true in Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Panama and even in Colombia.

But you will have to travel to various countries and watch their television, their movies, their musicians, etc while you're there. That's the only way you can know for sure, as I have done.


Are you sure about that?


http://www.correodelorinoco.gob.ve/w...firio-Lobo.jpg
Porfirio Lobo is mulatto (like Obama) and the current president of Honduras.


http://www.terrorfileonline.org/es/images/Batista.jpg
Fulgencio Batista was mulatto and part Chinese and president of Cuba in the 20th century.


http://www.biografiasyvidas.com/biog...s/heureaux.jpg
Ulises Heureaux was black and president of the Dominican Republic in the late 19th century.

There are plenty of additional examples. Let me know if you want to see them.


El Salvador is the smallest Spanish speaking country in the world and the only one that had such a law. They don't even make up 1% of the Latin American population. Plus, its one of the countries with the least percentage of whites in the whole hemisphere, the vast majority of the population being mestizos/mixed. If you want to use that as a convenient example for your agenda, go ahead, but I say its too small to be used for generalizations.


I guess that explains why the USA needs Affirmative Action programs to force its people to act in non-racist ways. Makes perfect sense.

Look at many of those countries south of the USA with much more mixed populations than the US. Most have had non-white presidents no just many years before the US, but also multiple times. Now various Latin American countries have even beaten the US in having a woman president and vice president!

In social settings, you know, where people are not forced by law to be with those they don't like, there's much more voluntary mixing between people of different races and color than is typical in the USA. Clear signs that Latin Americans more racist than Americans.


Hm, I wonder why I said this in my previous posts:

"For some reason in internet forum debates people begin to talk about completely different things and assume its one and the same."

And this:

"...the Portuguese/Spanish were convinced that while the non-whites were inferior to whites..."

And this:

"What I am saying is that the Spanish/Portuguese were the least racist of all the European colonialists."

I'm going to be nice by assuming some people simply have reading comprehension problems.


I don't need to watch documentaries, I read the history books, contemporary essays and research papers. But most importantly, I have traveled to various Latin American countries for month at a time, and I have not only spoken about this and other issues with various people that range from experts in their fields to the everyday person. In my trips, I have also lived the experiences and seen with my own eyes how the people treat each other in various types of settings.

Its always interesting coming back home to the USA, because that's when I noticed how much more racist Americans tend to be when there's no law forcing anyone to act a certain way. Also the constant use of race as a major identity label is racist in its way and is much more prevalent in the US than in Latin America.

Answer the following question truthfully: What Latin American countries have you visited?

I'm not talking staying for a week on a resort, I mean actually visited, being immersed in the culture and spend upwards of 3 or 4 weeks, maybe even more. Going off the beaten path.

How many have you visited, how many times and which were those Latin American countries?
Ulises Herreaux was actually half Haitian and half Cocolo/Guloya.
 
Old 08-21-2013, 09:25 AM
 
578 posts, read 755,984 times
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[quote=gwillyfromphilly;23618268]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio84 View Post
Because going off your past comments it is clearly evident that you are misinformed about racism in Latin America. Also your trying to paint this picture that the Spanish and Portuguese were not that racist compared to other European colonizers and that is simply not true.


No it happen in Central America and South America as well.


I guess it only took a couple hundred years for the indigenous population to start reaching stable numbers.


The Spanish almost wipe out the Aztecs and Inca cilivilizations. Weren't there actions just as horrible?


Most live on Indian reservations and yes I agree it is a shame.


That's all good information but what does that have to do with race relations in Latin America?


Yes and it's almost always the White or very light skinned Latinos playing the lead roles. Rarely do you ever see a Black or dark skin Latino on telenovelas. If they are on there, they are usually cast in stereotypical roles. If you don't believe just turn to "Univision" or "Telemundo" and you will see for yourself.


From what I've seen there are almost never any Afro-Latinos in lead roles on Spanish speaking television, regardless of country.


You do know that there is a thing call the internet right?


That still doesn't change the fact that was one of the most racist things a sovereign country could ever do. That says a lot when a country tolerates a law like that all the way up to the 1980's. It also doesn't surprise me that it was Spanish colonized country that did this. Even you would have to admit that was pretty damn racist for a country to go out of their way a ban an entire race from living in their country. No wonder why there black population is so low.


I lot of those Latin American countries could really use Affirmative Action.


If Latin America was so much better race relations than the U.S. than why hasn't there been any full blooded Afro-Latinos as President. All of the so called Afro-Latino Presidents you have shown probably have less than 1/8 African ancestry. All of them are mostly light skin and I have yet to see a dark skin Latin American President yet. Shouldn't there have been one by now "Antonio84"? If Latin America had such better racial opportunities than the U.S. then why haven't we seen many full blooded Amerindians or dark skin Afro-Latinos?


If Latin American Countries like Brazil were so color blind as you claim than why did it take up until the 1880's to abolish slavery? That was over 20 years after the U.S. abolished slavery.


You can't talk about race relations in Latin America without understanding the history of race relations in Latin America.


And I'm going to assume that some people clearly misinformed about reality and are ignorant about actual facts. lol


If you had been observant enough you would have notice that racism in most of those countries are swept under the rug when compared to the U.S. Meaning its largely hidden or ignored but like I said before, just because it isn't talked about does not mean it doesn't exist.


Have you? For all I know you could be full of crap saying you been to all of these countries but in reality you haven't. All I can give you are the facts. It's entirely up to you if you choose to accept the facts or not.
El Salvador has blacks and people of African descent in it's population.

Also the ban of black immigration to El Salvador has nothing to do with the size of it's black and African descendant populations.

Most Latin American nations during much of the 20th century had bans on black immigration to their respective borders.

Costa Rica revoked or took away citizenship from blacks in Costa Rica that were not of Hispanic colonial descent.

In Panama, during the 1940s blacks born to or descended from English speaking black West Indian immigrants, as well as Asians, Middle Easterns, East Indians. The only blacks that were allowed to immigrate were blacks that spoke Spanish and any Latin American blacks, as well as Catholics.
 
Old 08-21-2013, 11:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Also the Portuguese and the Spanish had endured hundreds of years of Arab domination, while the British not quite. As such, the Portuguese/Spanish were more accustomed to being around non-white people and didn't thought much about mating with non-whites.

Another thing many people ignore is that illegitimate children never received the last name of their father, but rather that of their mother. Most mestizos have Spanish last names, indicating recognition from the part of their Spanish fathers at some point, IMO.
Lol. Mestizos are mostly triracial. The term mestizo just means mixed. Most people have Spanish names because those are the names they took on to assimilate Hispanic norms. Most mulattoes and blacks in Hispanic Latin America have Spanish names because they took on those names after manumission from their masters or from those around them and passed it down generation after generation.

This is the same for Portuguese speaking Brazil.
 
Old 08-21-2013, 01:27 PM
 
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Many of the colonist did not bring european women with them. I did hear the spanish crown encouraged racial mixture with the natives. Portuguese men did not bring many women with them either to brazil, so they mixed with the natives and the african women.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 06:38 AM
 
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The funny thing is that pure whites have ALWAYS existed in Latin America. Just because Europeans mixed with Native Americans and Africans doesn't mean diddly squat or **** lol. In fact who says that the European men were monogamous? Many Europeans had children outside of their race that would be considered illegitimate. They had mixed race kids and many of them would then also have families with their European female partners and maintain their pure European bloodlines legacy.

This also happened in the colonial 13 original colonies. So don't get it twisted.

In virtually every Latin American country there exists a series of several families part of their nations respective elite groups that trace their bloodlines and it almost always has remained relatively purely European. Panama's white elite is known as "rabiblancos".

You even see this in Martinique and Guadeloupe. In Martinique they are called béké(s).
 
Old 08-23-2013, 06:41 AM
 
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And let's also not forget that there was also rape and concubinage as much ad there was consensual unions
 
Old 08-23-2013, 04:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObscureOpulence View Post
The funny thing is that pure whites have ALWAYS existed in Latin America. Just because Europeans mixed with Native Americans and Africans doesn't mean diddly squat or **** lol. In fact who says that the European men were monogamous? Many Europeans had children outside of their race that would be considered illegitimate.
Your fail to understand miserably; the fact that "whites" are different culturally, racially, and ethnologically. That is three of many reasons why they tried to annihilate one another several times over; over the years. There is no such thing as pure "white" specially in the Mediterranean region (due to racial mixing). That is one major reason why the "whites" in the Mediterranean region have always been more laid back towards other peoples. Too bad the English"whites" were so isolated geographically as well as culturally, because that rendered them overly provincial. They seemed afraid to accept others.

It is true that people who do not feel good about themselves have trouble feeling good about anyone else.
In addition;
"The superiority complex is one of the ways which a person with an inferiority complex may use as a method of escape from her or his difficulties. She or he assumes that she or he is superior when she or he is not, and this false success compensates her or him for the state of inferiority which she or he cannot bear.
The normal person does not have a superiority complex, she or he does not even have a sense of superiority. She or he has the striving to be superior in the sense that we all have ambition to be successful; but so long as this striving is expressed in work it does not lead to false valuations, which are at the root of mental disease."[4
]

4^ Ansbacher, Heinz L., and Ansbacher, Rowena R., ed. The Individual Psychology of Alfred Adler - A Systematic Presentation in Selections from his Writings. New York: Basic Books Inc., 1956 (page 260)
 
Old 08-24-2013, 10:55 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 13 days ago)
 
5,171 posts, read 8,022,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObscureOpulence View Post
And let's also not forget that there was also rape and concubinage as much ad there was consensual unions
Yes, but in countries where the mixed race people became a majority, it was not due to rape. Usually, the children of rape remain a minority within a society and when mixed race is the evidence of this, the mixed race population also remains a minority. They gain a majority when there is widespread marital unions where both parties agree to unite and a widespread relaxed attitude towards racial mixing.

The overall attitude of the Spanish was quite relaxed regarding racial mixing, unlike the British/Dutch/French/Germans who tended to look down on this practice.

You will also notice that countries that were colonized by people that overwhelmingly looked down on racial mixing, eventually developed racial segregation/apartheid policies. This is something that is practically unknown in the Latin American case.

In the USA the mixed race population has historically been a very small minority. Its only in recent years that this population has begun to skyrocket, mostly because general attitudes towards racial mixing have been relaxing. Under such circumstances, its only natural that the mixed race population will not just skyrocket, but also become a very large minority and eventually a majority of the USA population.

Rape doesn't causes nor explains mixed race majority populations.
 
Old 08-25-2013, 05:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalaMan View Post
Hi people.

I just found a very interesting study on the mitochondrial DNA of the Brazilian people.

For those who don't know what is mitochondrial DNA, some information from Wikipedia:


"Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is the DNA located in organelles called mitochondria, structures within eukaryotic cells that convert the chemical energy from food into a form that cells can use, adenosine triphosphate (ATP).

Mitochondrial DNA can be regarded as the smallest chromosome, and was the first significant part of the human genome to be sequenced. In most species, including humans, mtDNA is inherited solely from the mother."

Source: Mitochondrial DNA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



That means that your mitochondrial DNA comes from the mother of the mother of the mother of your mother.


More information from Wikipedia:

"In human genetics, a human mitochondrial DNA haplogroup is a haplogroup defined by differences in human mitochondrial DNA. Haplogroups are used to represent the major branch points on the mitochondrial phylogenetic tree. Understanding the evolutionary path of the female lineage has helped population geneticists trace the matrilineal inheritance of modern humans back to human origins in Africa and the subsequent spread across the globe.

The letter names of the haplogroups run from A to Z. As haplogroups were named in the order of their discovery, they do not reflect the actual genetic relationships."

Source: Human mitochondrial DNA haplogroup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Well... Scientists identified "haplogroups" of mitochondrial DNA that are typical of each continent.

There are haplogroups that are typical of Europe, others that are typical of Africa, others that are typical of Native Americans, etcetera.




I found this very interesting study about the mitochondrial DNA of the Brazilian people:

The Ancestry of Brazilian mtDNA Lineages


The study is named "The Ancestry of Brazilian mtDNA Lineages".


The most interesting conclusion of the study is summarized in this table:

PubMed Central, Table 4: Am J Hum Genet. 2000 August; 67(2): 444

The table shows the "Frequency of Continent-Specific mtDNA Haplotypes in the Brazilian mtDNA Pool".


As you should know, Brazil is a multi-racial country. And this genetic study confirms that.

The table shows that 39 percent of Brazilians have mitochondrial DNA of European origin, 33 percent of Brazilians have mitochondrial DNA of Native American origin, and 28 percent of Brazilians have mitochondrial DNA of African origin.


That distribution changes from a region of Brazil to another.

For example, in the Northeast, the Southeast and the South, the numbers are:


Northeast


European - 34 percent

Native American - 22 percent

African - 44 percent




Southeast (includes Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo)


European - 31 percent

Native American - 33 percent

African - 34 percent




South



European - 66 percent

Native American - 22 percent

African - 12 percent



This genetic study confirms how Brazil is a multi-racial country.
This isn't anything special. The USA is just like this. There have been a few studies done that confirm that the USA is very mixed.

If only humanity can realized that we are all human beings.
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