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View Poll Results: Is raced discussed in The Americas 24/7
Yes, Latin Americas think about race all the time 1 33.33%
No, this board has been invaded by race extremists. 2 66.67%
Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-18-2014, 10:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgar5203 View Post
Your claim was that the only reasons Latin American people overcame racism to the point of mixing was poverty ("living in the ghetto").

What is the general cultural excuse in the US?

Most poor people in the US are white... and not mixing. Your premise has fallen apart.
Latin America is at least as racist as is the USA, maybe even more so. They cannot find evidence that blacks are achieving the levels of upward mobility that has occurred in the USA (and Canada and even the UK) so they hold on to a myth of not being raced because folks in the ghetto are mixing.

Well to be black in most parts of Latin America is to be poor, to be perceived as being poor, and to be stuck in poverty, and to be ignored. That too me is as racist as any thing one can say about other parts of the world.


How can Latin America claim to not be the racist societies that they are when blacks are stuck in the ghetto?

Do you think that blacks are an inferior species of humanity fit only for the ghetto? Because this is what you imply when you claim that Latin America isn't racist?

 
Old 07-18-2014, 10:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
They are, it is a new phenomenon. Biracial folks are becoming very numerous in the US.

Using census data please indicate what % of the population are they.
 
Old 07-18-2014, 11:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Using census data please indicate what % of the population are they.
Most classify themselves as black. It is very much the Obama syndrome. I don't think Obama marks himself as half white. But racial mixing in the US is very evident. Most American blacks have European blood and are not like the folks in Africa.
 
Old 07-18-2014, 06:40 PM
 
8 posts, read 5,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Latin America is at least as racist as is the USA, maybe even more so. They cannot find evidence that blacks are achieving the levels of upward mobility that has occurred in the USA (and Canada and even the UK) so they hold on to a myth of not being raced because folks in the ghetto are mixing.

Well to be black in most parts of Latin America is to be poor, to be perceived as being poor, and to be stuck in poverty, and to be ignored. That too me is as racist as any thing one can say about other parts of the world.


How can Latin America claim to not be the racist societies that they are when blacks are stuck in the ghetto?

Do you think that blacks are an inferior species of humanity fit only for the ghetto? Because this is what you imply when you claim that Latin America isn't racist?

So mass incarceration and even segregation of schools according to race (in the modern world!!!) does not constitute racism?:

'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate'

'http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/05/brown_v_board_of_education_60th_anniversary_americ a_s_schools_are_segregating.html'

How about genocide?

'http://www.humanities360.com/index.php/andrew-jackson-and-his-role-in-the-genocide-of-the-native-americans-3-67204/'

No where in my posts do you find me stating "there is no racism in Latin America." But I find it hard to even imply that a list of countries (mostly of British descent) that committed genocide instead of "mixing" with the native population are less racist then Latin American countries, which by enlarge decided to free slaves centuries before their American counterparts, and proceeded to mix with the surviving native populations rather then exterminating them.

'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline'

Last edited by edgar5203; 07-18-2014 at 06:51 PM..
 
Old 07-18-2014, 09:21 PM
 
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Portugal had colonial wars in Africa as it did not want to lose its colonies. Other European countries, particularly Britain were more willing to grant independence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Other nations with a colonial past, presumably also pretty racist, never took things that far.
 
Old 07-18-2014, 10:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Most classify themselves as black. It is very much the Obama syndrome. I don't think Obama marks himself as half white. But racial mixing in the US is very evident. Most American blacks have European blood and are not like the folks in Africa.

You see I knew that you would chat that nonsense. Why don't you tell all of those 40% Amerindian and African people in Latin America who call themselves white to say that they are mixed.

80% of the population of Puerto Rico claims to be white, and they are considerably more mixed than the average black American who is 80% African.

I see black is bad so people must run away from that. White is good so people who are clearly mixed should be allowed to call themselves white.

The black bashing that goes on here is amazing!

You know what I am 80% African descent and the only people who claim me are people from Africa. No English/Irish person has ever identified with me. So can you tell me why I shouldn't identify as someone who is of African descent?
 
Old 07-18-2014, 11:04 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,937,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgar5203 View Post
So mass incarceration and even segregation of schools according to race (in the modern world!!!) does not constitute racism?:

'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate'

'http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/05/brown_v_board_of_education_60th_anniversary_americ a_s_schools_are_segregating.html'

How about genocide?

'http://www.humanities360.com/index.php/andrew-jackson-and-his-role-in-the-genocide-of-the-native-americans-3-67204/'

No where in my posts do you find me stating "there is no racism in Latin America." But I find it hard to even imply that a list of countries (mostly of British descent) that committed genocide instead of "mixing" with the native population are less racist then Latin American countries, which by enlarge decided to free slaves centuries before their American counterparts, and proceeded to mix with the surviving native populations rather then exterminating them.

'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline'
Here is the rub. In Latin America being black is a disgrace, so they have a huge cognitive inability to understand that they are people who are happy to be black, and who don't need whites to boost their self esteem. Because the ONLY argument that Latin Americans can raise is that there is all this mixing in Latin America, more than occurred in the USA.

Now itemize what genocide occurred in the USA that did not occur in Brazil. Africans were brutal enslaved in both, and Indians were slaughtered in both. In Brazil however such massacres occurred well into the 20th C, and might still be occurring for all we know.

In BOTH societies there was systematic demonization and discrimination against blacks. In the USA however blacks have been able to fight back, and as a result many have moved forward and now 30% are BETTER OFF than the average white person.

So let us see how you write great tales about Brazil and ignore the fact that Brazil was the LAST country in the Americas to end slavery. Also slavery in Brazil was so brutal and so the average slave lived only 7 years after being sold into slavery. This is why Brazil had to import so many slaves. Brazil imported TEN TIMES as many slaves as did USA.

Segregation. Drive around Rio and tell me how many blacks lived in the most affluent neighborhoods. Do you know that not long ago, up to the nineties BLACKS HAD TO USE SERVANT ELEVATORS IN apartments in neighborhoods like Ipanema? This because it was assumed that the only blacks around would be servants.


Sao Paulo Journal - The Elevator Doesn't Lie - Intolerance in Brazil - NYTimes.com

And this wasn't 1950s Jim Crow Mississippi. But a mere 20 years ago in Sao Paulo.

So spare me your BS that blacks don't face rampant racism in Brazil and that within the last 40 years they aren't more likely to be humiliated in Sao Paulo than in NYC.

You see the only way that you can make Latin America look good is to pretend as if the USA in 2014 is unchanged from the USA of 1954 and that there was no difference between NY and Mississippi. The USA had the Civil Rights movement, something that Brazil is yet to have.

As a result it is much BETTER to be an upper middle class black in NYC than in Rio, and I know because I live in NY and I visited Rio. I can compare how I have been treated in both cities, and I can assure you that in Rio I had to spend more time being careful about how I entered certain spaces, because I am black, than I have had to in NYC.
 
Old 07-19-2014, 12:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
You see I knew that you would chat that nonsense. Why don't you tell all of those 40% Amerindian and African people in Latin America who call themselves white to say that they are mixed.

80% of the population of Puerto Rico claims to be white, and they are considerably more mixed than the average black American who is 80% African.

I see black is bad so people must run away from that. White is good so people who are clearly mixed should be allowed to call themselves white.

The black bashing that goes on here is amazing!

You know what I am 80% African descent and the only people who claim me are people from Africa. No English/Irish person has ever identified with me. So can you tell me why I shouldn't identify as someone who is of African descent?

Oops, nice straw man!

I simply stated that American Blacks are racially mixed, but they continue to classify themselves as Black. American Blacks are not as African as Blacks from Africa. It is what it is. My point was that racial mixing is also quite prevalent in the USA.

OTOH, I have seen Americans that are part American Indian and they generally classify themselves as white. I see your point!

I think people often classify themselves according to their cultural values. It may very well, be that in Puerto Rico the definition of white does not involve absolute purity as it does in the USA. IF someone had a great great grand parent that had African roots that becomes moot if the traits don't show four generations later.

Our ancestors double in number with every generation. After 10 generations we have 1024 ancestors. After 20 generation we have over a million ancestors. Eventually you as a black person have an ancestor in common with a white person. This can be mathematically shown.

However, you cannot expect a person that does not look African to act like an African.
 
Old 07-19-2014, 12:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Oops, nice straw man!

I simply stated that American Blacks are racially mixed, but they continue to classify themselves as Black. ..

Black Americans have as much right to call themselves black if that is how they feel as some mulatto Puerto Rican has a right to call themselves white.

What interests me about some folks is that they never seem to talk about how ridiculous the census data which suggests that 80% of Puerto Ricans consider themselves to be white is.

Indeed the average Puerto Rican looks LESS than some one from Spain than does a black American look like an African. Yet the endless focus on the "poor misguided black American who refuses to admit that he is half white, so isn't black".

So you just need to accept what the US census says on this issue rather than debating about what you think about how black Americans chose to identify. The 2010 US census classified people based upon how THEY chose to self identify. It didn't force any one into any category into which they didn't wish to be placed.
 
Old 07-19-2014, 07:58 AM
 
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Reputation: 643
Technically, I am a mixed black american...specifically the color of Nelson Mandela...however white Americans NEVER
forget to overlook the African heritage and Africans have claimed me as black racially and whites,Asians and Puerto Ricans
have claimed me as black, I have been considered black all my life..

So I figure if PURE BLACK Africans claim me racially as black, even down to a specific tribe they say I look like I am from..
them being the black experts then guess what, I am black.

I knew a very light skinned black american who was stationed in Panama, he said they considered him white..

Last edited by Agbor; 07-19-2014 at 09:12 AM..
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