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View Poll Results: Is raced discussed in The Americas 24/7
Yes, Latin Americas think about race all the time 1 33.33%
No, this board has been invaded by race extremists. 2 66.67%
Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-19-2014, 08:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Most classify themselves as black. It is very much the Obama syndrome. I don't think Obama marks himself as half white. But racial mixing in the US is very evident. Most American blacks have European blood and are not like the folks in Africa.
He isn't half White, as his mother isn't 100% White. About 30% of White people in the US have Black African ancestry ranging from 2-20%. This doesn't include others that may have other non-White ancestry. I wish people would stop making it seem like all White Americans are purely White, when that isn't the case. Same could probably be said about Whites in Latin America too.

Also, Black Americans are of 80% West African descent. So, Black Americans are largely of African descent and that is for people that identify as such. So, people need to stop with this Black Americans are essentially mulattos stuff. (Source for statements above are from the December 2003 edition of Scientific American)

To answer the question, Spanish and Portuguese settlers were largely men that came alone and in turn, their options for sexual relations were basically Black African and Native women. Hence, the amount of mixture. It essentially came out of a lack of White European women for a sexual/any type of relationship and settlement patterns, not some color blind reasoning.

 
Old 07-19-2014, 08:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Black Americans have as much right to call themselves black if that is how they feel as some mulatto Puerto Rican has a right to call themselves white.

What interests me about some folks is that they never seem to talk about how ridiculous the census data which suggests that 80% of Puerto Ricans consider themselves to be white is.

Indeed the average Puerto Rican looks LESS than some one from Spain than does a black American look like an African. Yet the endless focus on the "poor misguided black American who refuses to admit that he is half white, so isn't black".

So you just need to accept what the US census says on this issue rather than debating about what you think about how black Americans chose to identify. The 2010 US census classified people based upon how THEY chose to self identify. It didn't force any one into any category into which they didn't wish to be placed.
Basically........People seem to forget that were discussing a social(and historical) construct.
 
Old 07-19-2014, 08:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
He isn't half White, as his mother isn't 100% White. About 30% of White people in the US have Black African ancestry ranging from 2-20%. This doesn't include others that may have other non-White ancestry. I wish people would stop making it seem like all White Americans are purely White, when that isn't the case. Same could probably be said about Whites in Latin America too.

Also, Black Americans are of 80% West African descent. So, Black Americans are largely of African descent and that is for people that identify as such. So, people need to stop with this Black Americans are essentially mulattos stuff. (Source for statements above are from the December 2003 edition of Scientific American)

To answer the question, Spanish and Portuguese settlers were largely men that came alone and in turn, their options for sexual relations were basically Black African and Native women. Hence, the amount of mixture. It essentially came out of a lack of White European women for a sexual/any type of relationship and settlement patterns, not some color blind reasoning.
Racial purity is an illusion. All humans come from Africa----------enough said!

As I said above the number of ancestors grows very quickly when one looks back at prior generations.


After 5 generations you have 32 grandparents.

After 10 generations you have 1,024 grandparents.

After 20 generations you have 1,048,576 grandparents.

After 30 generations you have 1,073,741, 824 grandparents (more than a billion folks in your family tree!!!!!).

In terms of world history 30 generations is not a whole lot and for a white person it is unlikely that all his ancestors were white. However, over time small numbers become insignificant and as you said descendants from slaves with a high mix of white were eventually able to transfer from black to white.

As we go back into our ancestry we also find out we are ALL related.

The issue I see here is that black genes tend to stand out more when mixed with white genes and hence people continue to call themselves black.

As for Spaniards, Italians and other Southern Europeans they tend to have DNA closer to Africa than folks in Scandinavia. However, these folks are not African in the same manner Puerto Ricans or Cubans are not African.
 
Old 07-19-2014, 10:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Racial purity is an illusion. All humans come from Africa----------enough said!

As I said above the number of ancestors grows very quickly when one looks back at prior generations.


After 5 generations you have 32 grandparents.

..

Using myself as an example, the bulk of my European ancestry came from one source. Each subsequent generation married people of predominant African ancestry, so with each generation the European became more diluted.

Your point?

I also see your continued insistence about people not being African. Well Puerto Ricans are not European either, yet 80% self identified as white in the 2010 census, and you prefer to rant about black Americans.

At 80% African ancestry black Americans are more "African" than Puerto Ricans are "European" as they certainly are NOT 80% European on average.

Last edited by caribny; 07-19-2014 at 10:47 AM..
 
Old 07-19-2014, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Historic West End
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Outside of Nigeria, Brazil has the largest concentration of Africans because of the slave trade.
 
Old 07-19-2014, 10:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Using myself as an example, the bulk of my European ancestry came from one source. Each subsequent generation married people of predominant African ancestry, so with each generation the European became more diluted.

Your point?
Mixing can be of two types: Very homogenous over 20-30 generations or very inhomogenous after 1-2 generations.

Mixing is unavoidable. The only way to avoid mixing is complete isolation.

I am against racial classification of any kind. Government forms that ask about race are an abomination. There is only one race and that is the human race. Differences among humans have to do with inbreeding and geographical isolation.

Inbreeding and geographical isolation were easy in the past, but not anymore.
 
Old 07-19-2014, 10:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Your point?
The most fair skin people in the world are also your relatives.
 
Old 07-19-2014, 10:40 AM
 
9,849 posts, read 6,738,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post

What interests me about some folks is that they never seem to talk about how ridiculous the census data which suggests that 80% of Puerto Ricans consider themselves to be white is.
I looked this up, you are correct:

Racial and Ethnic Composition in Puerto Rico (2010 Census)[1]
Ethnicity

White 75.8%


Black or African American 12.4%


Asian 0.2%


Two or more races 3.3%


American Indian 0.5%


Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander 0.1%


Other races 7.8%

The issue I see with Latin America is the same as the US. A nationality is not an ethnicity. An American can be of any color just as a Cuban or a Puerto Rican can be of any color.

I can also see why the US census included the term White Hispanic versus White non-Hispanic. Obviously they had the same view on race as you do.
 
Old 07-19-2014, 10:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
.
I am against racial classification of any kind. Government forms that ask about race are an abomination. ....

And that is your opinion. In France collecting statistics on race is illegal and yet that country is a cesspool of racism.

Merely refusing to acknowledge the social construct of race doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, or ceases to have impact. The social construct of race is as active in France as it is in the USA and in Brazil. In ALL of those societies peoples who are black are treated worse than those who are white, with other groups treated less well than are whites, but better than are blacks.

Last edited by caribny; 07-19-2014 at 11:00 AM..
 
Old 07-19-2014, 10:57 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,936,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
I looked this up, you are correct:

Racial and Ethnic Composition in Puerto Rico (2010 Census)[1]
Ethnicity

White 75.8%


I can also see why the US census included the term White Hispanic versus White non-Hispanic. Obviously they had the same view on race as you do.


The 2010 US census uses SELF IDENTIFICATION. It doesn't tell people how to identify.

1. FACT black Americans, who on average are 20% NON African, chose to identify as black.

2. FACT 80% of Puerto Ricans, who on average are 45% NON AFRICAN, chose to self identify as White.

Focus your energies on telling us why a people who are visibly of triracial ancestry insist in calling themselves WHITE. Unlike black Americans who are OVERWHELMINGLY of African descent, Puerto Ricans on average are almost as non white as they are white!
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