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View Poll Results: Is raced discussed in The Americas 24/7
Yes, Latin Americas think about race all the time 1 33.33%
No, this board has been invaded by race extremists. 2 66.67%
Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-19-2014, 11:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
The most fair skin people in the world are also your relatives.

When I told them that they didn't seem to agree. Should I spend the rest of my life begging them to accept me? Because this is what you want black Americans to do, rant that they are part white, so that whites should embrace them.

People develop identities to fit into the world around them. This is why Adam Clayton Powell was black in the USA, mulatto in the former British and French Caribbean colonies, and white in most parts of Latin America. In ALL of those societies historically those of predominant African ancestry have been treated poorly.

The only difference is that in some societies (the USA and the non Hispanic Caribbean) a significant segment of the black population (as defined by those societies) have progressed. In Latin America less so, to the point where the OAS has identified the social and economic marginalization of Afro descendants in Latin America (with the partial exception of the DR) to be a major developmental issue.

Last edited by caribny; 07-19-2014 at 11:21 AM..

 
Old 07-19-2014, 11:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlwarrior View Post
Outside of Nigeria, Brazil has the largest concentration of Africans because of the slave trade.

That is not an established fact. The overwhelming majority of Brazilians are of VISIBLE mixed ancestry. A large % of those who self identify as mixed are actually of mainly European and Indigenous ancestry, maybe with slight African ancestry.

The true answer is that we know that the population of people with predominant African ancestry is larger than the Brazil census indicates. But it certainly isn't the 50% number often bandied about.

In addition slavery in Brazil was brutal, despite what some Latin Americans will claim. So many slaves died and were replaced by other slaves.

The approach to slavery in the USA was different. In the early years the tobacco planters were too poor to buy continuously slaves from Africa, so often preferred to "breed" them on their plantations. By the time the slave plantation system became lucrative under the cotton regime, the slave trade was abolished and so these planters had to buy slaves from other parts of the USA, or again "breed" their own.

This is why the population of people of predominant African ancestry is LARGER in the USA than it is in Brazil. Many African slaves just didn't survive long enough to reproduce, and it is likely that the infant mortality rates among slave babies was much higher in Brazil as they represented no value to the planters. In the USA they represented a new labor force once they reach 6 y/o.

The reality is that socio cultural attitudes in Brazil are such that light skinned people with some African ancestry have no incentive to identify with those of predominant African ancestry. In the USA they had/have no choice. So to attempt to rope all peoples with visible African ancestry in Brazil under one label is an exercise in futility.
 
Old 07-19-2014, 11:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
That is not an established fact. The overwhelming majority of Brazilians are of VISIBLE mixed ancestry. A large % of those who self identify as mixed are actually of mainly European and Indigenous ancestry, maybe with slight African ancestry.

The true answer is that we know that the population of people with predominant African ancestry is larger than the Brazil census indicates. But it certainly isn't the 50% number often bandied about.

In addition slavery in Brazil was brutal, despite what some Latin Americans will claim. So many slaves died and were replaced by other slaves.

The approach to slavery in the USA was different. In the early years the tobacco planters were too poor to buy continuously slaves from Africa, so often preferred to "breed" them on their plantations. By the time the slave plantation system became lucrative under the cotton regime, the slave trade was abolished and so these planters had to buy slaves from other parts of the USA, or again "breed" their own.

This is why the population of people of predominant African ancestry is LARGER in the USA than it is in Brazil. Many African slaves just didn't survive long enough to reproduce, and it is likely that the infant mortality rates among slave babies was much higher in Brazil as they represented no value to the planters. In the USA they represented a new labor force once they reach 6 y/o.

The reality is that socio cultural attitudes in Brazil are such that light skinned people with some African ancestry have no incentive to identify with those of predominant African ancestry. In the USA they had/have no choice. So to attempt to rope all peoples with visible African ancestry in Brazil under one label is an exercise in futility.
Yeah, I would say it is somewhere in between what their census says and the higher estimates of 45-50% of people with a substantial/notable amount of African descent. It is probably closer to 30-33% in that case. After the US, Colombia is 3rd in that regard in the Western Hemisphere, as while the national percentage given is about 10-11%, many don't openly recognize their African ancestry and when taken into account, I've seen the percentage go to around 26%: BBC Mundo | Amrica Latina | Colombia hacia la integracin racial? (3rd segment).
 
Old 07-19-2014, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Yeah, I would say it is somewhere in between what their census says and the higher estimates of 45-50% of people with a substantial/notable amount of African descent. It is probably closer to 30-33% in that case. After the US, Colombia is 3rd in that regard in the Western Hemisphere, as while the national percentage given is about 10-11%, many don't openly recognize their African ancestry and when taken into account, I've seen the percentage go to around 26%: BBC Mundo | Amrica Latina | Colombia hacia la integracin racial? (3rd segment).
I agree, Columbia is probably a solid number #3 if you include people with partial African ancestry.
 
Old 07-19-2014, 02:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I think it's a good thing that Brazil is so diverse with many racially-mixed people. I know there is still prejudice based on skin colour there, but I'm wondering, assuming the Spaniards and Portuguese were as racist as the early American colonists, why did America pursue a policy of segregation, while in Latin America intermarriage between natives, Europeans and later black slaves was common and even promoted? Was it to 'breed out' the Indians, as what the government tried to do in Australia with our Aborigines? The settlers in the US, in contrast, just wanted to herd off the Indians to small reservations or outright kill them. Is 'racial purity' more of an Anglo-Saxon rather than a Hispanic thing?

Why was racial segregation in the US South so extreme during the Jim Crow era? Like blacks not allowed to marry whites, many black men hanged for being with white women. Other nations with a colonial past, presumably also pretty racist, never took things that far.
The mixing (really white mixing referred to as blanqueamiento) was promoted by national governments to lessen African and Native ancestries in the populace. The goal was to become fully Spanish eventually and closest to it as possible every generation. This is where this phrase "mejorar la raza" (bettering the race) comes from. Then areas where there were not much whites, and you had only Africans and Natives, in instances they mixed too because there were laws such as if you were born from a Native woman you could not be a slave and if you were born of an African woman you would be. So, many African men sought Native wives. Then because of that, they banned Native-African marriages (in Colombia) at one point during colonialism as it was a scapegoat to get out of continuous enslavement of your descendants.
 
Old 07-19-2014, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
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It's very difficult to know your ancestry unless you take one of those genetic tests which I would never take since I am on the paranoid side when it comes to personal data. I also don't think it will change my life if I find out I am "xx.xx% white or xx.xx% African.

Through records I know most of my ancestry has been in the new World since the 17th and 18th century. I think it would be kind of ridiculous at this point to feel "European" or "African". Leave that to those who have parents or grandparents from Spain. My family is 100% Colombian at this point. I think 300 or 400 years should be enough to qualify for that.

When I get that stupid question about race in polls (which I hate) I just tell them "other race". I am not gonna contribute of those ridiculous racist census or polls. I just wish more people did the same. Maybe someday Americans finally stop talking about race 24/7
 
Old 07-19-2014, 04:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugah Ray View Post
It's very difficult to know your ancestry unless you take one of those genetic tests which I would never take since I am on the paranoid side when it comes to personal data. I also don't think it will change my life if I find out I am "xx.xx% white or xx.xx% African.

Through records I know most of my ancestry has been in the new World since the 17th and 18th century. I think it would be kind of ridiculous at this point to feel "European" or "African". Leave that to those who have parents or grandparents from Spain. My family is 100% Colombian at this point. I think 300 or 400 years should be enough to qualify for that.

When I get that stupid question about race in polls (which I hate) I just tell them "other race". I am not gonna contribute of those ridiculous racist census or polls. I just wish more people did the same. Maybe someday Americans finally stop talking about race 24/7
I agree 100%. I find it very backwards to be obsessing so much about percentages of race.
 
Old 07-19-2014, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugah Ray View Post
When I get that stupid question about race in polls (which I hate) I just tell them "other race". I am not gonna contribute of those ridiculous racist census or polls. I just wish more people did the same. Maybe someday Americans finally stop talking about race 24/7
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosa surf View Post
I agree 100%. I find it very backwards to be obsessing so much about percentages of race.
Not participating in or simply getting rid of racial and ethnic polls has no effect on eliminating racism in a country. Caribny is right in that ignoring racism or racial identity will not mean that racism will go away, especially if it's institutionalized. Racism isn't just an American problem.
 
Old 07-19-2014, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Not participating in or simply getting rid of racial and ethnic polls has no effect on eliminating racism in a country. Caribny is right in that ignoring racism or racial identity will not mean that racism will go away, especially if it's institutionalized. Racism isn't just an American problem.
Of course I am only one person, I'm not gonna change the world. I just choose not to participle because I don't agree with it. I don't think keeping these excessive racial statistics is really helping anybody. Why does a marketing company need to ask my skin color when filling out a survey about my favorite radio station? Shouldn't my ethnicity be enough?

If you want to force me to choose a "racial identity" then fine call me "other race" Why do I have to identify myself with other continents when my ancestors have been here at least for 300 or 500 years? Things have changed since then. What Spaniards or Congolese people are doing in the 21st century has little in common with my Colombian heritage. I have far more in common with other Colombians of any race than with people who have my skin shade in other continents.
 
Old 07-19-2014, 09:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugah Ray View Post
I don't think keeping these excessive racial statistics is really helping anybody. .

Marketing companies aren't asking your skin color. They are asking your ethnicity.

In France collecting any data based on race or ethnicity is illegal. Can you prove that this has helped them reduce the inequities that people of Antillean, North and West African ancestry have in that country?

Of course you don't know because you will have no data to prove this. So ironically non whites might be doing better in France than people think, but the lack of data means that people then have to rely on anecdotes. So the notorious French ghettos then define in the eyes of the native French and of those of immigrant origin what being non white in France means.

In the USA we can deconstruct many myths about non whites because we have data. Most 3rd generation Hispanics speak English as a first language, this refuting the notion of a paranoid group that "Mexico plans to take over the USA".

There are distinct black populations in the USA based on socio economic data. So we can measure the extent to which conditions have improved for some blacks, and not for others, and then hopefully identify ways to incorporating the lagging segment.

Otherwise we are left with people who will tell you that all blacks breed like rabbits, live on welfare, and wear saggy pants down to their knees. When indeed younger black females are fast catching up with the population at large, and account for 10% of the bachelors degrees awarded, not far behind their 13% representation in the population.

Now I assume that you think that this data is useless, so people should go about with their prejudices held intact by their anecdotes, because France provides an excellent example of how "racism can function, even though race supposedly doesn't exist".
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