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View Poll Results: Is raced discussed in The Americas 24/7
Yes, Latin Americas think about race all the time 1 33.33%
No, this board has been invaded by race extremists. 2 66.67%
Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-22-2014, 01:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugah Ray View Post
If many colonists were Jews, they converted to Catholicism very quickly because there is not much evidence that Judaism was practiced. That place was so poor and isolated they probably didn't care much about keeping their religion, especially when most were men who arrived alone and not in families like the Portuguese in Brazil.

It is true there is a lot of African heritage there. You can find many slave records in every region in Antioquia including the so called "white" areas. A lot of mixing has taking place ever since slavery was abolished also. I personally don't think the recent mixing is a deliberate effort of some blacks to "whiten" like some posters have suggested. People just marry whoever they fall in love with.
All the more reason why Jews would have went to Colombia. There is actual much evidence of Jewish practices & influences in Colombia and even Latin America & the Caribbean in general (including Brazil & Haiti). There are many people that have (re)converted to Judaism in Medellin & Antioquia claiming multigenerational direct descent & lineage from Crypto Jews. Jews are said to be an ethnoreligious group, so many Jews that settled in the colonies would have came as or been listed as Spanish in the case of places like Colombia but at home or in private been Jewish & partook in Jewish practices. Many Colombians partake in undeniably Jewish traditions & may not realize it because it was passed down & their ancestors would have claimed to be or presented themselves as Christians in public.

In the case of Colombia, in the department of Antioquia, Colombia, as well as in the greater Paisa region, many families also hold traditions and oral accounts of Jewish descent. In this population, Y chromosome genetic analysis has shown an origin of founders predominantly from "southern Spain but also suggest that a fraction came from northern Iberia and that some possibly had a Sephardic origin". The Medellín tradition of the marranada, where a pig is slaughtered, butchered and consumed on the streets of every neighborhood each Christmas has been interpreted as an annual affirmation of the rejection of Jewish law.

Also Jews were bankers, traders, and partook in other professions that many non Jews didn't partake in so Jews & Crypto Jews benefitted and profited heavily from such. Many Crypto Jews from Spanish colonies and Brazil heavily interacted globally with and in trade with Sephardi Jews who lived in and were treated better in British & Dutch colonies and could be openly Jewish in public, out loud, & on purpose. Sephardi Jews spoke/speak Ladino, also known as Judezmo, which is like a Judeo-Spanish or Spanish heavily mixed with Hebrew influences which is rooted back to origins in ancient Spain.

Colombia did have cases of families settling during the colonial period.

Interesting that you mention Brazil. Most of Brazil's population is said to have Sephardic Jewish genes mixed in varying degrees. "Portuguese" was and still in many ways especially in colonies became a synonym for "Jewish" because so many Portuguese settlers in Portuguese colonies and other colonies of non Portuguese were often times of Jewish descent.

As for your commentary on race mixing, I agree that most people are mixed race & continue to mix because they simply fall in love with people because of mutual love for one another, not to whiten. I do believe that colorism is still an issue which even you admitted. Some posters here are averse to nuance. Most of the population of Colombia is mixed but it's also diverse with very large racial and ethnic minorities.

Afro-Colombians make up about 35% of Colombia's population. I think a lot of people undermine or underestimate the black African presence of blacks in the interior of Colombia during the Spanish colonial period.

Last edited by SobreTodo; 07-22-2014 at 01:24 PM..

 
Old 07-22-2014, 02:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugah Ray View Post
I
For me you would be a mixed person but I would acknowledge that you would face discrimination. Blacks and mixed people with dominant black features unfortunately still face a lot of social challenges there.


My guess: A combination of discrimination, remote location, low density towns, earlier internal migration patterns that increased internal cities populations and force them to prosper faster.

Many blacks live in Colombian cities and on the Caribbean coast. Hardly remote, or low density, yet reports indicate that there are few prospects for black Colombian women other than being domestics. Brazil has moved beyond that....only JUST beyond that. The USA left that stage TWO generations ago.

People need to stop making excuses for the extreme employment discrimination which occurs in Latin America.

Why would some one who is 80% African be mixed. They are BLACK and that is all there is to it.

How many people who are 80% European in Latin America will call themselves mulato? FEW of any.
 
Old 07-22-2014, 02:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post

When these NY Puerto Ricans return to PR they do not understand the views of the locals regarding race.

Neither would I if I met some one who was 1/3 Taino, 1/3 African, and 1/3 white, who insisted in calling themselves white. Indeed I am sure that a Spaniard would be in a mass of confusion at how deluded these people would be.
 
Old 07-22-2014, 03:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Neither would I if I met some one who was 1/3 Taino, 1/3 African, and 1/3 white, who insisted in calling themselves white. Indeed I am sure that a Spaniard would be in a mass of confusion at how deluded these people would be.
You are not supposed to get it. However, you are supposed to accept that other cultures are different. There is a lot I don't get about other traditions and cultures, but I have learned to accept the differences.

Last edited by Julian658; 07-22-2014 at 03:31 PM..
 
Old 07-22-2014, 04:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SobreTodo View Post
Miami and Florida in general actually has always had many Afro Cubans, & Cubans of color. A lot of Cubans of color went to Union City, NJ also known as Havana-on-the-Hudson. Louisiana and NY until recently or not that long ago had the largest Cuban communities and concentration of Cubans in the USA. Lots of people overlook these facts and nuances, and don't even realize it. Just saying. And many of these communities have always had Cubans of color.

Black Cubans Set Apart Because Of Color, Culture - Sun Sentinel

http://www.miamidade.gov/baab/librar...miDade2007.pdf

Cuban blacks don't fit into the white Cuban exile world. What is interesting in the second link is how poorly Cuban blacks are doing relative to other blacks in Miami. I get the sense that the more educated Cuban backs don't stay in Dade county as they have no interest in putting up with the racism from their white fellow country men, so its the poorest and least educated of them who stay.




Social and Economic Adjustment of Afro-Cubans in the United States: Racial ... - Michelle Hay - Google Books

More about black Cuban attitudes towards their white fellow countrymen. Most of the people interviewed were professionals, and virtually all referred to difficulties in dealing with white Cubans. Some even suggested that white Americans were LESS racist towards them.
 
Old 07-22-2014, 04:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
You are not supposed to get it. However, you are supposed to accept that other cultures are different. There is a lot I don't get about other traditions and cultures, but I have learned to accept the differences.

OK so I must listen to people telling me that I am misguided because I object to being called mulatto, yet accept people who are basically non white screaming that they are white.

No can do because in this world there are people running around with Eurocentric notions that whiteness is best and when people of color wish to negate my right to identify as black, and scream their desire to be white I cannot let that pass without commentary.

What they do is enable the notion that some whites have that they are best because they are white. That having further ramifications for those of us who happen to live in white dominated societies, which is basically EVERY country in the Americas except for the non Hispanic Caribbean.

The SAME mulattos who self identify as white also demand that black people with vague non African ancestry negate being black, because black is bad in their eyes.

So every time they bring up the nonsense that black Americans should call themselves mixed, I will tell them how ridiculous that a 2/3 non European person looks to every one , INCLUDING a 100% European, when they grovel to beg to be accepted as white.
 
Old 07-22-2014, 04:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobreTodo View Post

Afro-Colombians make up about 35% of Colombia's population. I think a lot of people undermine or underestimate the black African presence of blacks in the interior of Colombia during the Spanish colonial period.

Don't you think that the reason that we under estimate this is because Colombia prefers to project itself as a light skinned mestizo country, and that most Afro Colombians are banished to the bottom rungs?

Only people who go out of their way to learn about Colombia are even aware that it has the 3rd largest black population in the Americas, behind the USA and Brazil.
 
Old 07-22-2014, 04:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Many blacks live in Colombian cities and on the Caribbean coast. Hardly remote, or low density, yet reports indicate that there are few prospects for black Colombian women other than being domestics. Brazil has moved beyond that....only JUST beyond that. The USA left that stage TWO generations ago.

People need to stop making excuses for the extreme employment discrimination which occurs in Latin America.

Why would some one who is 80% African be mixed. They are BLACK and that is all there is to it.

How many people who are 80% European in Latin America will call themselves mulato? FEW of any.
Who is making up excuses? Who hasn't admitted there is no discrimination?

It's very easy to judge other nations and say "they are all a bunch of racists" "we are doing better" Way much easier than informing yourself about all the facts and doing some critical thinking.

What I am telling you is that the problem is not as simple as "there is a lot of discrimination there" There are many social problems including corruption and classism.

Again there is discrimination but make no mistake, there are few prospects for a lot of people even if they look like Germans. There is a lot of poverty, 80% of the population in Medellin is lower class. Imagine what the statistics must be for the poorer small towns.

Based on what I have seen the biggest predictors of success in large cities were: Either being born in a wealthy family or if you were lower class being blessed with a very high intelligence. Our classmates who were black and had high grades were all able to succeed. Unfortunately the majority of lower class students could not pass the difficult college entrance exams required in public universities. You would see them applying year after year. To make matters worse some wealthy kids attend public universities because they are better than the private universities. Private universities are only affordable to probably 5% of the population. I knew a couple of really dumb rich kids who attended those. When I say dumb I mean dumb.
 
Old 07-22-2014, 04:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugah Ray View Post
Who is making up excuses? Who hasn't admitted there is no discrimination?
.

All of the people who scream how racist the USA is, compared to Latin America. Point to one post here where there is indepth discussion of racism towards blacks in LatAm from Latin American posters.

The gist of the usual discussion is about how good LatAm is for blacks because blacks get to mix with whites (which blacks in the USA don't get to do.....poor things).

When we point out how economically segregated blacks are, then we get excuses about how poor LatAm is. Even as the whole world knows that there has been a rapid growth of the middle class. Mainly the light skinned mixed folks.........but if I accept your EXCUSE I guess you are saying that more blacks are dumb, so fewer move forward.

Only when pressed do we hear silent murmurs that LatAm isn't the paradise that we were originally told.

My suggestion is that Latin Americans need to cease worrying about what black Americans call themselves, and focus on the fact that the blacks in the Americas who have made the least progress are the ones living right there in LatAm, despite all the "mixing".

The OAS doesn't have special programs for blacks in the USA, or the Non Hispanic Caribbean, because blacks in those societies have made tremendous progress over the past 50-70 years. It is in LatAM, where conditions for blacks have remained almost unchanged, there is the need for what the OAS is now offering.
 
Old 07-23-2014, 12:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
OK so I must listen to people telling me that I am misguided because I object to being called mulatto, yet accept people who are basically non white screaming that they are white.

No can do

So every time they bring up the nonsense that black Americans should call themselves mixed, I will tell them how ridiculous that a 2/3 non European person looks to every one , INCLUDING a 100% European, when they grovel to beg to be accepted as white.
Folks like Adam Clayton Powell and Vanessa Williams should be able to call themselves black because they have African traits despite a heavy dose of European heritage.

A Puerto Rican actor like Jose Ferrer should be able to call himself white because be has no African features. In fact be is one of the few Latin actors that played the role of Anglos in the movies.

How about José Feliciano? It would be weird if ha called himself black!

Jennifer Lopez has clear cut indigenous features. In the USA she is Hispanic. And as a New Yorker she probably calls herself a Hispanic. I. Bet that of she had grown up in PR she would mark herself as white.

This is all cultural!

Lastly racism in most parts of the world is often based on the concept that people of colour are less able. Perhaps the only way to combat racism is with achievement.
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