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View Poll Results: Is raced discussed in The Americas 24/7
Yes, Latin Americas think about race all the time 1 33.33%
No, this board has been invaded by race extremists. 2 66.67%
Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-30-2012, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Fortaleza, Brazil
2,580 posts, read 4,663,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obpumc View Post
When Brazil was colony of Portugal, few Portuguese immigrated to Brazil, most of them males, so they came alone and had to mix with slaves and indigenous women…

After the independence of Brazil much Italian and Germans families immigrated to Brazil, most of them live in south of Brazil and they normally don’t mix with others races.

You are totally right in the first part, and wrong in the second.

Yes, the main reason for racial mixing in colonial Brazil was the small number of European women that came to here. In the first centuries of colonization, there were hundreds of thousands of marriages between Portuguese men and women from indigenous tribes that were Christianized by the jesuit priests in the "aldeamentos" or "missoes".


But you are wrong when you say that the Italian and German immigrants "don't mix with other races" here in Brazi. They mixed a lot. If not DIRECTLY with black people or indigenous people, but they mixed with Brazilians of tri-racial ancestry. The Italians mixed much more than the Germans, but the Germans have also mixed.

 
Old 01-30-2012, 01:25 PM
 
3,516 posts, read 4,971,890 times
Reputation: 3499
Default Latin America - racially mixed

Different countries and regions of Latin America, differ greatly in their racial composition.

All of Argentina (except the Andes foothills), Uruguay, Costa Rica, and the very southern tip of Brazil, have populations of overwhelmingly European white descent (mostly traceable to Spain and Italy, with a smaller component from other European countries). Argentina traditionally prides itself on its cultural ties to Europe. Although just lately there has been some immigration from the Andes countries into Argentina.

The Andes mountain countries of Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador are very different, people there have a majority of native Indian blood, with a quite small white (Spanish-descended) population who are often the business and political elite. It was a big deal when an Indian was elected President or Peru a number of years ago. The native tribal Quechua and Aymara languages prevail in southern Peru and Bolivia instead of Spanish. Native Indian culture is also very strong in northern Central American countries, as well as very southernmost Mexico (Oaxaca) where skin complections may be dark brown, native tribal languages still prevail over Spanish. The overall bloodlines of Mexicans in general are majority Indian, or mixed Indian-White (called Mestizo) although the pure or near-pure whites often control business and politics.
I'm not sure what the racial makeup is of Chile, but I get the idea it may be whiter than the Andes countries to the north.

African-descended people are found in Caribbean coastal areas of Colombia, Venezuela, and Dominican Republic, not always but often mixed with white ancestors. African culture is particularly strong in northeast coastal Brazil where blacks are a strong majority, and overall perhaps the majority of Brazilians nationwide have some black ancestry (although it's hard to measure, and people have many feeling about this). The huge remote Amazon region is noted for its Indian culture, although this is diminishing as black and white Brazilians from the coast settle in the Amazon to develop its natural resources (mining and timber).

There are also several hundred thousand Japanese-descendants in southern Brazil and to a lesser extent Peru (such as their recent President Alberto Fujimori) and a substantial Jewish population in Buenos Aires. And some Lebanese descendents such as for former Argentine President Carlos Menem and Mexican artist Frida Kahlo. The famous television personality Don Francisco is a Jewish Chilean. Havana has a Chinatown.

Last edited by Vichel; 01-30-2012 at 11:43 PM..
 
Old 01-30-2012, 01:47 PM
 
12 posts, read 33,819 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalaMan View Post
You are totally right in the first part, and wrong in the second.

Yes, the main reason for racial mixing in colonial Brazil was the small number of European women that came to here. In the first centuries of colonization, there were hundreds of thousands of marriages between Portuguese men and women from indigenous tribes that were Christianized by the jesuit priests in the "aldeamentos" or "missoes".


But you are wrong when you say that the Italian and German immigrants "don't mix with other races" here in Brazi. They mixed a lot. If not DIRECTLY with black people or indigenous people, but they mixed with Brazilians of tri-racial ancestry. The Italians mixed much more than the Germans, but the Germans have also mixed.
I did not generalize it, but if you go to southern of Brazil you will see that most of whites don't mix with blacks or indians. In southern of Brazil more than 80% are whites unmixed.

Last edited by obpumc; 01-30-2012 at 01:47 PM.. Reason: correction
 
Old 01-30-2012, 02:33 PM
 
193 posts, read 665,666 times
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places like Blumenau, Curitiba and Florianópolis in Southern Brazil are "whiter" on average than any equal-sized U.S. or Canadian city.
 
Old 01-30-2012, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Spain
195 posts, read 609,077 times
Reputation: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumbler. View Post
With regard to why the Spanish Americans classified mixed-race people into many social stratifications/castes with various degrees and labels (instead of a one-drop rule idea the US took), it's been chalked up by some historians to the idea of an re-application and extension/manifestation of the idea of Limpieza_de_sangre to the New World. Originally the concept distinguished the Iberians who thought of themselves as descendents as of the older Christians originally living there, opposed to descendents of Jews or Muslim Moors who converted to Christianity.
Yes, but population mixed at the end. With the conversion, the society was homogenized.
 
Old 01-30-2012, 06:22 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,455,894 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by obpumc View Post
I did not generalize it, but if you go to southern of Brazil you will see that most of whites don't mix with blacks or indians. In southern of Brazil more than 80% are whites unmixed.
I wonder if a large reason for that is socio-economics; that the wealthiest people tend to be the most European so they don't want to marry into a lower class. Also, the Germans came later to Brazil, probably women as well as men, so less men marrying native women.

I find it strange that I've heard in Sao Paolo some of the most beautiful girls are considered to be from Southern Brazil. To me, there's nothing like an attractive 'mixed' Brazilian senhora.
 
Old 01-30-2012, 08:54 PM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,539 posts, read 17,773,692 times
Reputation: 30896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post

I find it strange that I've heard in Sao Paolo some of the most beautiful girls are considered to be from Southern Brazil. To me, there's nothing like an attractive 'mixed' Brazilian senhora.
You find it strange that some people don't share your tastes, or that some people find White people attractive?
 
Old 01-30-2012, 09:07 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,455,894 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
You find it strange that some people don't share your tastes, or that some people find White people attractive?
I find white people attractive, but why export models with predominantly German ancestry to the catwalks of Milan as a representative of Brazil? When I think of the typical Brazilian, I think of a caramel-skinned mulatto with curly hair, in a thong on Copacabana beach, lol.
 
Old 01-30-2012, 09:08 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,455,894 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
You find it strange that some people don't share your tastes, or that some people find White people attractive?
I find white people attractive, but why export models with predominantly German ancestry to the catwalks of Milan as a representative of Brazil? When I think of the typical Brazilian, I think of a caramel-skinned mulatto with curly hair, in a thong on Copacabana beach, lol.

I saw a documentary about models in Brazil and how unmixed white girls were allegedly given preferential treatment. Dunno how biased it was but it annoyed the heck out of me.
 
Old 01-31-2012, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Fortaleza, Brazil
2,580 posts, read 4,663,094 times
Reputation: 1562
Quote:
Originally Posted by obpumc View Post
I did not generalize it, but if you go to southern of Brazil you will see that most of whites don't mix with blacks or indians. In southern of Brazil more than 80% are whites unmixed.
That's an ILLUSION! Those people are NOT unmixed!

They may look white for you... And maybe a few of them who don't know History very well think that themselves are "unmixed"... But they are mixed.

The fact that they "look white" doesn't mean that they don't have some African or indigenous DNA. Most of them have.


Genetic studies show that 34% of the population of the South Region of Brazil (states of Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina and Parana) have mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) of African or indigenous origin, and 66% of the population have European mitochondrial DNA.

(Source: PubMed Central, Table 4: Am J Hum Genet. 2000 August; 67(2): 444 )

Now, you should make the following reasoning exercise:

Take one individual in the South region of Brazil who has European mitochondrial DNA (someone in the 66%). As we know, that mitochondrial DNA comes directly from his maternal grandmother (the mother of his mother). But, how can we be sure that the other THREE grandparents also have European mitochondrial DNA? Since we don't know what is the origin of their mitochondrial DNA, we can assume 34% of probabilities for each grandparent to have African or indigenous mtDNA, since they are part of the general population of the South. Since there are THREE "unknown mtDNA" grandparents, and 34% is equivalent to ONE THIRD, chances are high that at least one of the three have African or indigenous mtDNA.

That means: for each individual in the group of 66% that has European mitochondrial DNA received from the maternal grandmother, chances are high that at least one of the other three grandparents have African or indigenous mtDNA.

Once you have European mitochondrial DNA, but one of your four grandparents has African or indigenous mtDNA, that means you have mixed ancestry.

The fact is: being blonde and having blue eyes in Santa Catarina doesn't mean that you are "100% white". You may have 5% of African or indigenous ancestry, and don't know it.
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