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Nope, re read ALL posts. Reading is fundamental. I'm trying to show the flaw in others entire arguments, and counter or respond with it with another objective nuanced counterpoint or flawed argument to show the flaw in another persons argument. Somewhere in the truth lies the middle. I don't defend either the BRUTAL natures of the British or the Spanish. The bottom line is that they were really not that different from each other & GOOD & EVIL traits and/or tendencies can be found among BOTH the British & the Spanish, which is the OVERALL point I'm trying make.
Now so you defend the Spanish & bash the British??? Or do you admit that BOTH Spanish & British were similar and/or both had elements of imposed colonization that were harsh or had harsh & positive elements?
I'm merely saying that we can find all manner of injustice in the past. Racism and bigotry are not new. What's currently happening is what is of greatest interest to me. Also of interest to me are those groups which have steadfastly held on to their racism and bigotry despite movements to be rid of it (or perhaps in spite of them). I like to seek the reasons and motives as to why they have hung on to racism and bigotry.
If I didn't know these people well I would believe them. LOL. "Going back to their roots". At least if they gonna covert do it because they believe in the teachings of that new religion, not because of some supposed "heritage" linked to some poncho or whatever. They sound like the history channel and their ancient aliens, making absurd connections. I guess the next thing is that "arepas" and "la musica guasca" are also Jewish.
The synagogue in Medellin has been there for a while though. There was a significant amount of Jews that moved in the 20th century but left in the 90's because of the ridiculous violence. They came with nothing and became millionaires. My mother worked for them, they were very good to us.
So you've defended the British, defended the South, and bashed the Spanish. What's your final conclusion?
And I suggest you study colonial documents, records & laws & legal history. USA gained its independence in 1776 from Britain. And the South and most of colonial USA & antebellum USA mirrored modern day perceived Latin America, with lots of racial mixing and similar fluid race relations and people united or at least in theory united as one with shared ethnic and/or cultural traditions.
Contrary to popular belief, the strict color line or racial divide did NOT originate during or from or with the U.S. American slavery experience, or British colonization or antebellum or postbellum USA culture & history.
Interracial marriage & racial mixing were very common and widespread for & throughout ALL of USA history & culture.
Also the intense racism & racial divide arose out of the 20th century Jim Crow one droppist segregationism experience. Btw, NONE of the Jim Crow laws or the 1931 to 1967 one drop rule in many southern states or the ban on interracial marriage in many southern states from 1912 to 1967 came from British rule or colonization, as Britain lost control of USA lands by the 1770s & 1780s.
And believe it or not, most blood quantum laws, racial divide, and Jim Crow laws you associate with the USA South/Southern states actually originated in the NORTH/Northern states.
Additionally, more than 90% of land that today constitutes what is now the USA up until the mid 1800s was controlled by Spain/Spanish, France/French, Dutch, and other European colonizers & other groups that were NOT British/Britain that had thriving colonies and racism, colorism, and lots of influences that would help give birth to racism and other oppressive forms of control and intolerance in the USA & elsewhere abroad. Spanish instituted/institutionalized race, castas, colorism, racism & divisive distinctions in mainland North America & what is now USA in the early 1500s and were the first European imperial empire in the Western Hemispheric region, so we can't overlook that; keep that in mind.
Either way whether British, French, Spanish, Dutch, German, Russian, Arab, Jewish, Moor, African, Scottish, Danish, Swedish etc or any other colonizer group, all had and utilized the same tactics but let's keep in mind reality & historical chronology.
Colonizers worked in collusion with each other & abroad even when & while in competition with each other.
Look up sumptuary laws & tingón laws. The list goes on. Spanish imposed tingón laws.
The issue and elephant in the room was the imposition of Jim Crow laws in the 20th century in USA. Had USA, not had 20th century Jim Crow, segregationism, the perception of race & relations or perception of race tension or contention probably wouldn't be the way it is or is perceived post Jim Crow era etc. it also depends on how much time is elapsed. Jim Crow era was a unique different time period of USA history altogether.
Discussion on social class/classism in the USA is important though & should be payed more attention to.
Latin American nations had xenophobic laws that existed until quite recently. Latin American nations are certainly not racial Utopias. Regardless, bottom line is that racism, colorism, & classism are issues in both USA & Latin American nations. No one is better than the other. Solving & eradicating issues in both and all regions is IMPORTANT and is the key. We human beings ARE the friggin key & many don't even know it! But le sigh!
Last edited by SobreTodo; 07-24-2014 at 12:59 AM..
Now it's the Spanish Jews who created slavery apparently
Could this forum get more absurd?
Every group of people was involved in slavery as oppressors, slave owners, and enslaved & oppressed.
People seem to forget about or overlook the Arab slave trade & Muslim slave trade. In addition, Africans even enslaved Europeans.
As for Spanish Jews creating slavery, that's an interesting claim, although it's not necessarily or fully accurate. There is lots of truth to the claim though to an extent & in varying degrees. A lot of Spanish Jews & other types of Jews did partake in slavery and various slave societies and slave trades throughout the world, although every other type & group of people was involved in it & partook in such. Slavery has existed globally everywhere since ancient times.
Everyone has oppressed others and been oppressed by others. What humanity should focus on at this point is moving forward & advancing towards peace & equality.
Last edited by SobreTodo; 07-24-2014 at 12:52 AM..
I'm merely saying that we can find all manner of injustice in the past. Racism and bigotry are not new. What's currently happening is what is of greatest interest to me. Also of interest to me are those groups which have steadfastly held on to their racism and bigotry despite movements to be rid of it (or perhaps in spite of them). I like to seek the reasons and motives as to why they have hung on to racism and bigotry.
Hmm, I see. I think everyone here is looking for that here on this thread in this forum or at least through the skill or art of debate and/or conversation. LOL.
So you've defended the British, defended the South, and bashed the Spanish. What's your final conclusion?
I NEVER defended anyone or anything btw. I never even mentioned the South in my original comments, YOU DID though. You mentioned the South. All of this shows your agenda and how you twisted my words & others words here.
If I didn't know these people well I would believe them. LOL. "Going back to their roots". At least if they gonna covert do it because they believe in the teachings of that new religion, not because of some supposed "heritage" linked to some poncho or whatever. They sound like the history channel and their ancient aliens, making absurd connections. I guess the next thing is that "arepas" and "la musica guasca" are also Jewish.
The synagogue in Medellin has been there for a while though. There was a significant amount of Jews that moved in the 20th century but left in the 90's because of the ridiculous violence. They came with nothing and became millionaires. My mother worked for them, they were very good to us.
In the department of Antioquia, Colombia, as well as in the greater Paisa region, many families also hold traditions and oral accounts of Jewish descent. In this population, Y chromosome genetic analysis has shown an origin of founders predominantly from "southern Spain but also suggest that a fraction came from northern Iberia and that some possibly had a Sephardic origin". The Medellín tradition of the marranada, where a pig is slaughtered, butchered and consumed on the streets of every neighborhood each Christmas has been interpreted as an annual affirmation of the rejection of Jewish law.
Sephardi Jews ---->>
There is debate about Jewish ancestry in the Paisa people. It has been possible that Spanish Jews (known as marranos) fleeing the Cartagena de Indias Inquisition took refuge in the Antioquian mountains during the sixteenth and seventeenth century. Some Colombian authors like Jorge Isaacs and Miguel Ángel Osorio claimed that Paisas have Jewish ancestry. Several Paisa surnames are of Jewish origin, for example Espinosa, Pérez and many others. Some scholars state that the presence of Sephardic Jews in the ancestry of Paisas is a fact, but it does not mean that all Paisas come from them, as proven by origins in other groups like Basques, Extremaduran, Andalusian and Catalonian.
If I didn't know these people well I would believe them. LOL. "Going back to their roots". At least if they gonna covert do it because they believe in the teachings of that new religion, not because of some supposed "heritage" linked to some poncho or whatever. They sound like the history channel and their ancient aliens, making absurd connections. I guess the next thing is that "arepas" and "la musica guasca" are also Jewish.
The synagogue in Medellin has been there for a while though. There was a significant amount of Jews that moved in the 20th century but left in the 90's because of the ridiculous violence. They came with nothing and became millionaires. My mother worked for them, they were very good to us.
Yeah. I agree with you to an extent. Their claims of having Jewish roots & ancestry may be tenuous at best, but at this point descendants of colonial Sephardi Jewish arrivals to Antioquia Colombia, & Medellin, more particularly will be genetically and/or culturally mixed. Even the Sephardic Jews that arrived to Colombia would have been cultural and/or genetic hybrids to an extent. DNA testing can help or only go so far. We don't know if these people actually do have the Jewish genetic ancestry in their genealogy. That would be interesting if arepas and la musica gusaca had Jewish roots or mixed in Jewish roots in its mixed and/or derived origins & antecedents. LOL. Arepas seem to be a hybrid of derived influences. I love arepas LOL. Musica gusaca seems to be a hybrid of influences as well too. Buñelos are said to have Jewish origins or heavy input & influence as well as hojaldres. But of course wherever Jews and Jewish diasporic populations settled or went throughout the world, they adapted to local or nearby surrounding customs and traditions and adapted it or incorporated it into their Jewishness etc. so go figure. It's all very complex.
Accents & speech patterns are said to have mixed Jewish influences but of course influences are mixed hybrids at this point.
Colombia is just a mixed up Sancocho of influences, con un poquito de todo y mucho mas!
This trend seems to be growing worldwide of people & populations dique "reclaiming their Jewish roots".
Jews seem to be able to build success wherever they go, whether through hardship, ease, & without ease.
Although a minority, Jews are everywhere in Colombia or widespread & seem to be very successful and strong organized community.
Last edited by SobreTodo; 07-24-2014 at 01:22 AM..
I'm merely saying that we can find all manner of injustice in the past. Racism and bigotry are not new. What's currently happening is what is of greatest interest to me. Also of interest to me are those groups which have steadfastly held on to their racism and bigotry despite movements to be rid of it (or perhaps in spite of them). I like to seek the reasons and motives as to why they have hung on to racism and bigotry.
Hmm, I can agree with this on a global international level because it's a worldwide issue that needs to be solved.
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