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View Poll Results: How do you view Dominicans?
Strictly Latin American. 40 33.61%
Afro-Latino 65 54.62%
Strictly Afro-Caribbean. 14 11.76%
Voters: 119. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-28-2012, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Boston
701 posts, read 1,270,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMario View Post
Why is there a distinction for Afro-latino, but not one for Native-latino? Most of LA has native american blood, so if we're going to seperate Afro-latino's, might as well do it for everyone else.
...Because the population of the Dominican Republic is at least 73% African/European admixture.

And we do have a term for Indigenous/Latin (Read: Spanish, Portuguese) mixtures, they're called "Mestizo".

Also, I would be wary of using "most" when referring to how much Native blood is left in Latin America. Some countries have more citizens with native blood than others but the Dom. Rep. (And Haiti, since it's the same island) is not one of them.

 
Old 12-28-2012, 06:12 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 13 days ago)
 
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I found this on the internet, but I don't fully understand what it means. What it seems to me is average genetic composition in the average person from each category, based on some DNA study that was done.



Also found this: New Study Confirms Taino Ancestry among Dominicans: "The study, conducted by the University of Puerto Rico, reveals that approximately 15-18% of Dominicans have Native American Mitochondrial DNA out of a population of nearly 10,000,000."

I wonder if its possible to have Taino ancestry, even when the mitochondrial DNA is not of that origin. I wonder because apparently, in all cases of Taino ancestry among Dominicans, they also had African and European mixed in as well, but most often European Y-chromosomes (inherited from the male line). Can it be possible to have an African mitochondrial DNA and a European Y-chromosome, and still have Taino DNA? I think so, and could possibly lead to the actual number of Dominicans with Taino DNA surpassing the percentage that have Taino mitochondrial DNA.

This is all very interesting.
 
Old 01-01-2013, 05:27 AM
 
Location: DF
758 posts, read 1,961,215 times
Reputation: 606

Another race post on the latin america forum?

I don't know... do Bolivians view themselves as Indigenous South Americans or Latin Americans? Why the obsession, guys?

Dominicans are racially more black than the majority of Spanish speaking countries, just like different latin American countries have their own racial dynamics, but they are a Latin American countries and at the end of the day have a lot more in common with other Spanish speaking countries than with Haiti, it's neighbor.

Dominican artists like Juan Luis Guerra and Proyecto Uno made their fame by branching out to Latin America, not the Caribbean. Dominican housewives watch Mexican and Colombian soap operas. Dominicans can name off 10 Spanish speaking artists from other countries before naming two or three from Haiti or Jamaica. Dominican customs of kissing on the cheek, large extended families, holiday celebrations, etc are all more Latin than they are 'Afro-Caribbean'...whatever that means.

Don't let a country's race or skin color dictate your opinion of it.
 
Old 01-01-2013, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
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^^^^ Just to add, the term "Latin" is not limited to the Spanish-speaking world. The custom of kissing on the cheek is common in French or formerly French islands in the Caribbean. And there are formerly French and Spanish islands where this is done. Same with large extended families.

I agree with you overall though. But yes, not sure what "Afro-Caribbean" is supposed to me. Cultural varies across the Caribbean and there are other mixed islands that are not Spanish-speaking.
 
Old 01-03-2013, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Boston
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While Haiti could technically fall under the umbrella of Afro-Latino since they speak both French and Haitian Creole, "Latin" in the U.S. is understood to be anything that speaks Spanish, as incorrect as that is, and therefore excludes countries like Haiti and Brazil. And Afro-Caribbean, for what I've learned, was typically reserved for non-romance language speaking Caribbean countries and territories.

Last edited by silverbelles; 01-03-2013 at 03:30 PM..
 
Old 01-03-2013, 04:39 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 13 days ago)
 
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In the English language (especially the US version ) there is a difference between being Latin vs Latino. That "o" at the end changes the meaning of Latin and it is Latino that is used in the US. Latino (also synonymous with Hispanic) means descendant of Spanish speaking peoples. Latin is anyone that speaks a Romance language, mainly Spanish, Portuguese, French, or Italian.

I also think there is a hidden racial component to the US definition and usage of the word Latino/Hispanic. Most Latinos are mixed race individuals, whether mestizos from Mexico, Central America or South America; or mulattoes from the Spanish Caribbean, and small number of whites. The vast majority of those three racial groups have at least some Spanish blood mixed in and the Spanish language is also their mother tongue (which is probably due to having Spanish blood, the language was simply passed down from one generation to the next starting with the first Spaniard that impregnated the first indigenous or African woman, producing the first generation of the mixed race descendants.)

The whole issue with Haiti is that less than 5% of the population actually speaks and understands French (and they tend to be the mixed race minority, most of whom have French blood in them and that is one thing that differentiates them from the majority that is almost fully of African ancestry.) Most Haitians living in the US are not from the French-speaking/mixed race upper class. Most Haitians in the US can't even understand French (and don't even have a drop of French blood in them), so they can't really be considered Latin anymore than most former French colonies in Africa, which are also not considered Latin due to the same reason (most of the people in those countries don't have French as their mother tongue and most of the minority that do have French as their native tongue are mixed race individuals themselves with partial genetic ties to France.) Also, Haitians don't have Spanish as their mother tongue, so they can't be considered Latino either, not even under a technicality.

Haitians are a very unique people in this hemisphere.

Last edited by AntonioR; 01-03-2013 at 04:52 PM..
 
Old 01-03-2013, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Caribbean
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Haitians do have Latin influenced culture, as does Martinique, Guadeloupe and other non-Spanish speaking nations of the Caribbean. That's why you will find many people kissing on the cheek, both sides. Music like Zouk is very much a Afro/Latin fusion but it is not Hispanic. It reaches the non-Hispanic Latin-influenced, both French/Kreyol and Portuguese. Even the English/Kreyol nations and some in formerly Kreyol speaking nations that now speak English are drawn to it.

I definitely would not refer to Haitians as Latino...they are connected to the Francophone world.


Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbelles View Post
While Haiti could technically fall under the umbrella of Afro-Latino since they speak both French and Haitian Creole, "Latin" in the U.S. is understood to be anything that speaks Spanish, as incorrect as that is, and therefore excludes countries like Haiti and Brazil. And Afro-Caribbean, for what I've learned, was typically reserved for non-romance language speaking Caribbean countries and territories.
Afro-Caribbean is not a proper term to label any and every non-romance language speaking Caribbean nation because of the mixed populations in certain islands such as the Cayman Islands, Trinidad & Tobago, Aruba etc.

Last edited by ReineDeCoeur; 01-03-2013 at 05:30 PM..
 
Old 01-03-2013, 06:12 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 13 days ago)
 
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There is also a difference between Creole and Kreyol. Creole is simply a corruption of, in this case, a European language, some like to call them a dialect. In the French Caribbean (and even in parts of the formerly British Caribbean) they have a French Creole dialect along with the French language, but the dialects are not a separate language, they are more of a slang. This is different from Kreyol, which is not a dialect of French, it is a separate language.

A Caribbean person that speaks French Creole, also speaks and understand French. The same happens in the former British Caribbean and one can say that the same can be said of African Americans with many who also speak what they call Ebonics. For example, in Jamaica they speak English with a large segment of the population that also speaks Patois. However, Patois speakers also understand English.

That is completely different from what happens in the Kreyol of Haiti. A person that speaks just Kreyol is not able to understand someone speaking to them in French and vice versa. Until the 1980s, the vast majority of Haiti's population was not able to legitimately open a business or have any type of relationship with the Haitian state, because everything the Haitian state did required a full dominance of French, which only the upper class knew. Some people say that this linguistic apartheid is a major reason for why Haiti is so poor and undeveloped even by sub-Saharan African standards.

Last edited by AntonioR; 01-03-2013 at 06:20 PM..
 
Old 01-03-2013, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Boston
701 posts, read 1,270,827 times
Reputation: 1021
Hm, I'm enjoying this discussion. I'm learning a lot!
 
Old 01-03-2013, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,558 posts, read 2,428,887 times
Reputation: 2738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio84 View Post
There is also a difference between Creole and Kreyol. Creole is simply a corruption of, in this case, a European language, some like to call them a dialect. In the French Caribbean (and even in parts of the formerly British Caribbean) they have a French Creole dialect along with the French language, but the dialects are not a separate language, they are more of a slang. This is different from Kreyol, which is not a dialect of French, it is a separate language.

A Caribbean person that speaks French Creole, also speaks and understand French. The same happens in the former British Caribbean and one can say that the same can be said of African Americans with many who also speak what they call Ebonics. For example, in Jamaica they speak English with a large segment of the population that also speaks Patois. However, Patois speakers also understand English.

That is completely different from what happens in the Kreyol of Haiti. A person that speaks just Kreyol is not able to understand someone speaking to them in French and vice versa. Until the 1980s, the vast majority of Haiti's population was not able to legitimately open a business or have any type of relationship with the Haitian state, because everything the Haitian state did required a full dominance of French, which only the upper class knew. Some people say that this linguistic apartheid is a major reason for why Haiti is so poor and undeveloped even by sub-Saharan African standards.
Not really. The term French Creole/Kreyol is used interchangeably across many islands to refer to the LANGUAGE, especially when it comes to the older generation. The term Patois refers to French Creole/Kreyol on a number of other islands as well. That the Jamaican dialect is referred to as "patois" is interesting as the term refers to something entirely different in most places that use the term elsewhere. When my grandmother refers to French Creole/French Patois, she is referring to the language. Her mother was from Dominica and fluent in French Creole/Kreyol. My Lucian friends would understand that to reference the same. Your interpretation of the term French Creole is too limited.

Regarding English based Creoles, those vary across islands. Depending on the island they may be littered with French/Kreyol words, Hindi/Bhojpuri terms etc. So it is not necessarily comparable to Ebonics either. French Creole/Kreyol was the lingua franca in numerous islands which has an effect on the dialects spoken today.
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