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View Poll Results: How do you view Dominicans?
Strictly Latin American. 40 33.61%
Afro-Latino 65 54.62%
Strictly Afro-Caribbean. 14 11.76%
Voters: 119. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-25-2014, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Randolph, MA
508 posts, read 642,518 times
Reputation: 598

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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
It is very likely that the mulatto Haitians arrived in the DR when it was ruled by the MULATTO Boyer.

A black Haitian president NEVER ruled the DRl

Your attempt to make Haitian mulattos look like victims when they have always been the elites, even today, is amusing.

If mulattos were so victimized why are they the pillars of society, to the point where many blacks have complexes about them. Even Papa Doc who hated them, married one, as did his son?

Haiti was exactly like most pre WWII non Hispanic Caribbean nations, with one exception. It was the MULATTOS, and not colonial whites who were at the top. Blacks were at the bottom, until the last 60 or so years, just like elsewhere in the non Hispanic Caribbean.

Haitian elites have always been brutal to the ordinary Haitian, and to each other. BOTH the mulattos, and the periodic instances where blacks were the dominant group.
You're making Haiti out to be an opera of Black Misery from conception. It wasn't. Otherwise we'd have been fleeing the island a long time ago. It's only been White and Mulatto Haitians who've done that historically. Because Haiti DID have mulatto oppression. I know old folks who can attest to that and under Duvalier my family received a lot of crap. Not to mention secret killings ordered in Dame-Marie, Jacmel or Jeremie by a Black nationalist Papa Doc. He wasn't 100% black either, by the way.

Last edited by MassNative2891; 07-25-2014 at 12:36 AM..

 
Old 07-25-2014, 07:18 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 15 days ago)
 
5,187 posts, read 8,029,582 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
It is very likely that the mulatto Haitians arrived in the DR when it was ruled by the MULATTO Boyer.
What does the fact that Boyer was a mulatto has to do with anything? The guy was a dictator and much despised island-wide. You should really do more research into the history of Haiti under Boyer's rule, because Haiti almost split and disappeared at that time. The French Consul in Port-au-Prince in 1843 (guess who was ruling Haiti at that time ) even wrote in a letter he sent to France that many prominent Haitian mulattoes were asking him to make the eastern portion of the island (which at that time was still officially occupied by high ranking Haitian military officers) a heaven for the Haitian mulattoes in order to get away from the "cholera" (actual word used) of the blacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
A black Haitian president NEVER ruled the DRl
Last time I checked Ulises Hereaux who ruled the DR in the 1890s with an iron fist was half Haitian. Yes, not quite a full blooded Haitian, but he was black and he was half-Haitian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
Your attempt to make Haitian mulattos look like victims when they have always been the elites, even today, is amusing.
What does that has to do with anything? Haitian history is nothing more than a struggle between the mulattoes and the black, a very bloody struggle. That mulattoes are still on top is mostly due to them doing a better job at administering their businesses and this is closely tied to the fact that a large percentage of Haiti's upper class mulattoes families were already business owners at the time the Haitian revolution broke out. That's one of the reasons they have been hated by many of the blacks in Haiti.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
If mulattos were so victimized why are they the pillars of society, to the point where many blacks have complexes about them. Even Papa Doc who hated them, married one, as did his son?
The "complexes of the blacks" can simply be hypocrisy. There could also be other dynamics at play, because in traditional society (which Haiti is) women are often seen as some sort of property and it seems, at least among the power circles, that more often than not whenever a black (or someone perceived to be black) marries a mulatto, the black appears to most times be the man while the mulatto is the woman. In a way, but not the extreme, it could be why when one group of men dominated another group of them, they would often attack the pride of the second one by taking their women. That was the ultimate power blow.

You seem to not make the connection between what the social situation was in a particular place before it gained its independence with whatever is going on today. Even today the truly richest people in Haiti tend to not even be mulattoes (I'm talking about the richest individuals) but rather white, either Jews or of French/Arab ancestries. Haiti is probably the one country in the world that has done everything it could and for the longest period of time to get rid of the whites and make them a completely disadvantaged people, and look how things turn out despite all of that.
 
Old 07-25-2014, 12:33 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,931,227 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassNative2891 View Post
You're making Haiti out to be an opera of Black Misery from conception. It wasn't. Otherwise we'd have been fleeing the island a long time ago. It's only been White and Mulatto Haitians who've done that historically. Because Haiti DID have mulatto oppression. I know old folks who can attest to that and under Duvalier my family received a lot of crap. Not to mention secret killings ordered in Dame-Marie, Jacmel or Jeremie by a Black nationalist Papa Doc. He wasn't 100% black either, by the way.

Black Haitians did flee to the DR in the early 20th century, and to Cuba as well. Given that they were treated horrendously in both countries, clearly conditions were quite bad. Migrating to other parts of the Caribbean at that time would have been replacing one misery with another. They most likely didnt have the means to get to NYC at that point, and clearly wouldnt have gone to the Jim Crow South.

The fact that Papa Doc wasnt 100% black is neither here nor there. There was no social distinction between a man who is 90% black and one who is 100%.

Some claim that Papa Doc's hatred of mulattos was because of the discrimination which he faced as a dark skinned man. I will leave those who are more expert on this topic to opine. But needless to say Haiti had an oppressive class system, almost from the beginning, and the dominant group within the elites were the mulattos. This is not to say that there werent also black elites, or that these elites werent equally oppressive on the masses.


Haiti was never given a break, weighed down by being virtually boycotted by the slave owning nations (all of Europe, and the USA). Then bogged down with the massive compensation payment to France.

I am not sure that the condition of the average black man in Haiti was any better in the late 19th century, than it was in the then British and French colonies. Certainly the rudimentary gov't supported elementary school school systems which were developed in the former British and French colonies didnt happen to the same degree in Haiti.

As you well know conditions in those colonies were quite dire. I am sure that you are aware of the film made by a Martiniquan "La Rue Casse Negre" (Black Shack Alley). The only difference was that it wasnt a white plantocracy, and white colonial governing class at the top. It was a mulatto elite, advantaged from the beginning by their literacy, and in some instances, their wealth.

So one can argue as to who benefitted from the Haitian Revolution, and it clearly wasnt the grass roots blacks.
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