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Old 09-03-2013, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Brasilia
195 posts, read 441,386 times
Reputation: 90

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"RIO DE JANEIRO — Brazil’s government summoned the United States ambassador on Monday to respond to new revelations of American surveillance of President Dilma Rousseff and her top aides, complicating relations between the countries ahead of Ms. Rousseff’s state visit to Washington next month.

While senior Brazilian officials expressed indignation over the revelations of spying by the National Security Agency on both Ms. Rousseff and Enrique Peña Nieto, now the president of Mexico — reported Sunday on the Globo television network — they stopped short of saying whether Ms. Rousseff’s visit was at risk of being called off.

“This would be an unacceptable violation to our sovereignty, involving our head of state,” José Eduardo Cardozo, Brazil’s justice minister, said in an interview. Mr. Cardozo said that Brazil had requested an explanation from Washington regarding the revelations, emphasizing that he had already proposed in meetings with American officials a legal accord regulating United States intelligence activities in Brazil.

“Something like this would clearly not fit” within such an agreement, Mr. Cardozo said.

The report, based on documents provided by the fugitive N.S.A. contractor Edward J. Snowden to Glenn Greenwald, an American journalist living in Brazil, described how the N.S.A. used different computer programs to filter through communications and gain access to specific e-mails, telephone calls and text messages of Ms. Rousseff’s top aides.

In the case of Mexico’s leader, the Globo report described how the N.S.A. obtained a text message from Mr. Peña Nieto himself in 2012, while he was a candidate for the presidency, that referred to an appointment he planned to make to his staff if elected.

Mexico’s response to the revelations was muted compared with Brazil’s. Mexico’s Foreign Ministry said in a statement that it was asking the United States in a diplomatic note for an “exhaustive investigation” into the matter, while also summoning the American ambassador to emphasize the government’s position.

Washington has been seeking to enhance its ties with Brazil, Latin America’s largest country, by reaching out to Ms. Rousseff. Her government was already angered by previous revelations that Brazil ranked among the N.S.A.’s most spied-upon countries.

While Brazil maintains generally warm ties with the United States, resentment lingers over the repressive eavesdropping by the military dictatorship from 1964 to 1985 and the support of the United States for the coup that brought the military to power.

American officials here were put on the defensive just weeks after Secretary of State John Kerry briefly visited Brazil in August in an effort to ease tension over earlier reports describing how the N.S.A. had established a data collection center in Brasília, among the strategies the N.S.A. is said to have used to delve into Brazil’s large telecommunications hubs.

The American Embassy in Brasília said Monday that it would not comment on the matter.

Beyond condemning American spying practices, Brazil is taking other steps. For instance, Gen. Sinclair Mayer, who runs the Brazilian Army’s science and technology department, recently told lawmakers of a plan to establish underwater Internet cables linking Brazil to Europe and Africa, reflecting an effort to reroute Internet traffic now going through the United States.

Brazil also said in August that it had chosen a French-Italian venture to build a satellite for military and civilian use, part of a bid to ensure sovereignty of important communications.

The Brazilian authorities have also ordered Brazil’s Postal Service to develop a national e-mail system allowing users to exchange encrypted messages that would presumably be harder for intelligence agencies to monitor. The new system, scheduled to begin in 2014, is intended as an alternative to American services like Gmail and Hotmail.

Cybersecurity experts have expressed skepticism, pointing to how even hackers have found ways to penetrate seemingly secure satellites and porous parts of the Internet, but Brazil is still moving ahead with the programs.

For Mexico, the report comes at an awkward time, with Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. scheduled to visit Mexico soon to promote economic talks and with American law enforcement officials continuing to chafe over the unexpected release of one of the most notorious drug lords from a Mexico prison.

The security relationship under Mr. Peña Nieto has been strained at times, with his government seeking to control American law enforcement activity in Mexico more tightly, but both countries have promised to collaborate closely and have worked on arrests."

Source: NYTimes
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/03/wo...html?ref=world


...Now what's next? Military invasion? I don't think the US knows the difference between friends and foes. And with a security agency like NSA (and citizens like Snowden), they don't need abroad enemies...

...I wonder if they know something about my private moves...
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Old 09-03-2013, 03:40 PM
 
46 posts, read 105,081 times
Reputation: 69
Moron! Do you really think that Brazil doesn't 'spy' on the USA just like the USA spies on Brazil, or even on Mexico? You seriously can't be that stupid!
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Old 09-03-2013, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Somewhere on the Moon.
10,091 posts, read 14,965,663 times
Reputation: 10391
It's safe to say that the USA doesn't have any friends (or at least the USA government acts as if it doesn't), just associates that one minute might be pro-USA and the next they might become anti-USA.

I'm not justifying this, simply stating that it should not be a surprise that the USA is spying on its closest allies. Of course, the respective country's governments will make a big fuss about this to show their populations that they should feel indignation about this, but in reality many of those countries probably have spies all over the USA too.

If there's a valuable message behind all of this is probably to the enemies of the USA. You know that old saying: keep your friends close and your enemies even closer.
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Old 09-03-2013, 04:02 PM
 
46 posts, read 105,081 times
Reputation: 69
That kind of thinking reminds me of a school girl worrying about how popular she is. Of course we have no friends, we have many potential enemies. Survival is not a popularity contest- a lesson that many country's, that no longer exist, failed to understand.
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Brasilia
195 posts, read 441,386 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by migolito View Post
Moron! Do you really think that Brazil doesn't 'spy' on the USA just like the USA spies on Brazil, or even on Mexico? You seriously can't be that stupid!
Wow, such an intelligent comment. You contribution to the debate was very, very elevated! Thanks a lot.
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:05 AM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,773 posts, read 21,500,362 times
Reputation: 9263
Lol and Brazil can't do anything about it
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:05 PM
 
46 posts, read 105,081 times
Reputation: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by antma robel View Post
Wow, such an intelligent comment. You contribution to the debate was very, very elevated! Thanks a lot.
Ok, you got me. I'll answer your original question. Yes, the US is planning a military invasion of Brasil! You caught us. Geez, is critical thinking even required in your schools? or, is a life of government handouts just the norm.

Let me help you out. Take off your rose colored glasses for a minute (don't worry, you can put them back on after I'm done). A bit about world history...The world is a dangerous place, the guy with the biggest club wins, end of story. In all candor, the USA population, generally speaking, doesn't care if any other country 'likes' them, respects them, or wants to be friends with them. We only care if we can kill them. Means we can set the rules and other country's can choose to follow them. At this point, most other country's do. Those that don't get spanked.

Reality check time: The USA is a unique country (means one of a kind) in that it is made up of people from every other country in the world. No other country can claim that. It is not made up of a single religion, race, ethnicity, country of origin, etc. What makes the USA better than any other country isn't our natural resources, it isn't because we are located where we are, it isn't because we have the biggest baddest military ever created. Nope, what makes the USA so damn good is we are made up of people from every other country in the world and we have true individual freedom. That's why people from every other country in the world grow up in their country, look around, pack their bags and head to the USA. Once here, they build the best military in the world to protect themselves from the country's they fled from where they didn't have true freedom. It's a harsh reality, but none the less true.

You can put your glasses back on now.
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Old 09-04-2013, 01:16 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
What nonsense. The US is a country just like any other immigrant country. Brasil herself is just as diverse.
You really have a totally unrealistic view of the US and the world for that matter. Most people don't give a crap about the US and wouldn't move there even if they were handed a green card on a silver platter. My friend in India for instance was offered a job in Texas and declined, preferring to stay in Mumbai. The US is an utter mess behind a shiny surface, and even the surface is not so shiny anymore...

And don't forget, the US needs the world much more than the other way round. It's 7 billion vs. 300 million.

I personally think Brazil and Argentina should jointly cancel the treaty on the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons and develop a joint defense system for Latin America. At the end of the day nuclear weapons are the only thing that keeps rogue states such as the US at bay. Nobody messes with China or India anymore, not even with North Korea...
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Old 09-04-2013, 01:25 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
It's safe to say that the USA doesn't have any friends (or at least the USA government acts as if it doesn't), just associates that one minute might be pro-USA and the next they might become anti-USA.

I'm not justifying this, simply stating that it should not be a surprise that the USA is spying on its closest allies. Of course, the respective country's governments will make a big fuss about this to show their populations that they should feel indignation about this, but in reality many of those countries probably have spies all over the USA too.

If there's a valuable message behind all of this is probably to the enemies of the USA. You know that old saying: keep your friends close and your enemies even closer.
Actually, no, I don't think Brazil spies on the US. I mean, what for? There is nothing of interest as Brazil doesn't have imperialist aspirations. Don't accuse other countries of being as bad as the US just because you want to justify something that is wrong.
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Old 09-04-2013, 02:32 PM
 
46 posts, read 105,081 times
Reputation: 69
Brazil develop a Nuclear Weapon! Really? Maybe in 50 or 60 more years.
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