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Old 06-28-2014, 11:39 AM
 
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You can show all those graphs but the truth is that Cubans and Brazilians are very different from each other. Cubans are Spanish+Black+Asians+Native american and Brazilians are Italian+Portuguese+German+Black+Native, mostly.

Even Victorias Secrets recruits most of its models from Brazil.

There is a HUGE difference between a Cubana and a Brazilian.

Cubans are more african and look less european than brazilian.

 
Old 06-28-2014, 03:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiResident View Post
You can show all those graphs but the truth is that Cubans and Brazilians are very different from each other. Cubans are Spanish+Black+Asians+Native american and Brazilians are Italian+Portuguese+German+Black+Native, mostly.

Even Victorias Secrets recruits most of its models from Brazil.

There is a HUGE difference between a Cubana and a Brazilian.

Cubans are more african and look less european than brazilian.
Cubans are diverse. There's no Cuban look. Just like Panama.
 
Old 06-28-2014, 10:39 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 16 days ago)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiResident View Post
You can show all those graphs but the truth is that Cubans and Brazilians are very different from each other. Cubans are Spanish+Black+Asians+Native american and Brazilians are Italian+Portuguese+German+Black+Native, mostly.

Even Victorias Secrets recruits most of its models from Brazil.

There is a HUGE difference between a Cubana and a Brazilian.

Cubans are more african and look less european than brazilian.
That may be more stereotype than anything else. I did find this study on Brazil (
PLOS ONE: The Genomic Ancestry of Individuals from Different Geographical Regions of Brazil Is More Uniform Than Expected). It has many graphs but none are similar to the one's I published in my other post and that makes them visually hard to compare.

Anyway, according to this ancestry DNA study:

Quote:
In all regions studied, the European ancestry was predominant, with proportions ranging from 60.6% in the Northeast to 77.7% in the South.
Quote:
The most evident diversity in the ancestral Amerindian, European and African proportions of the different color categories, both between and within the different regions of Brazil, was seen in individuals self-assessed as Brown. For instance, in the North (Belém, PA) self-classified Brown individuals had, on the average, 68.6% European ancestry, followed by 20.9% Amerindian ancestry and 10.6% African ancestry, while in the South they had, on the average, 44.2% European, 11.4% Amerindian and 44.4% African ancestries.
Quote:
The results obtained showed that there is in fact a smaller level of variability between the different regions than had been observed in the census data of color categories or in the ancestry proportions of the different color classes (Fig. 1). In all regions studied the European ancestry surfaced as uniformly preponderant, with proportions of 69.7%, 60.6%, 73.7% and 77.7%, respectively (Table2). This suggests that the populations of different regions of Brazil are ancestrally more similar than previously realized.
The conclusion of that study is that Brazilians are genetically similar, regardless of what the predominant phenotypes are in each region. Darker parts of Brazil, lighter parts of Brazil, doesn't matter; the average Brazilian everywhere is predominantly of European descent.

This is important because in the other study I cited in my previous post, it clearly shows that the average admixture among Cubans also has a predominant European component, similar to Brazil. Puerto Ricans also fall in that category, but with a stronger Amerindian minority component. Dominicans are much more balanced, but even among their admixture levels, which have more African input than in all the other Spanish/Portuguese places, the European component is slightly majority and is the largest contributor.

You can say that Cubans look more like this and Brazilians more like that, but the genetic studies show that the average admixture among Cubans and Brazilians (and Puerto Ricans and Dominicans) is much more similar than previously thought.

To put it in simple terms, if in Cuba/Brazil/Puerto Rico/Dominican Rep racial segregation would had been implemented with miscegenation kept to a bare minimum, the majority of the people in all four countries would had been white. Miscegenation was not looked down upon in all four places, with minor differences of course, so the majority European component is still present in their population, but now it appears not in its 'pure' form, but admixed with African and Amerindian as well. So the white populations are smaller than they would had been, but their genetic input is as high as the white population would had been had widespread miscegenation never taken place.

Last edited by AntonioR; 06-28-2014 at 10:48 PM..
 
Old 06-29-2014, 09:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
That may be more stereotype than anything else. I did find this study on Brazil (
PLOS ONE: The Genomic Ancestry of Individuals from Different Geographical Regions of Brazil Is More Uniform Than Expected). It has many graphs but none are similar to the one's I published in my other post and that makes them visually hard to compare.

Anyway, according to this ancestry DNA study:







The conclusion of that study is that Brazilians are genetically similar, regardless of what the predominant phenotypes are in each region. Darker parts of Brazil, lighter parts of Brazil, doesn't matter; the average Brazilian everywhere is predominantly of European descent.

This is important because in the other study I cited in my previous post, it clearly shows that the average admixture among Cubans also has a predominant European component, similar to Brazil. Puerto Ricans also fall in that category, but with a stronger Amerindian minority component. Dominicans are much more balanced, but even among their admixture levels, which have more African input than in all the other Spanish/Portuguese places, the European component is slightly majority and is the largest contributor.

You can say that Cubans look more like this and Brazilians more like that, but the genetic studies show that the average admixture among Cubans and Brazilians (and Puerto Ricans and Dominicans) is much more similar than previously thought.

To put it in simple terms, if in Cuba/Brazil/Puerto Rico/Dominican Rep racial segregation would had been implemented with miscegenation kept to a bare minimum, the majority of the people in all four countries would had been white. Miscegenation was not looked down upon in all four places, with minor differences of course, so the majority European component is still present in their population, but now it appears not in its 'pure' form, but admixed with African and Amerindian as well. So the white populations are smaller than they would had been, but their genetic input is as high as the white population would had been had widespread miscegenation never taken place.
Not Cuba

Cuba was predominately a mulatto/black country in the turn of the 20th century.


Blanqueamiento - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 06-29-2014, 10:30 AM
 
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There are people that go at lenghts to infer that everybody in Latin America "destiñe" or as the Inquisition stated "has impure blood", "el que no tiene de Congo tiene de Carabalí". It's just like the saying that a cripple does not want to be a cripple, he wants everybody to be a cripple.

It shows a tremendous inferiority complex. Why negate the existence of 50 to 70 million white Latin Americans with no admixture whatsoever?

I remember that in a state hotel in the city of Guantanamo, a mostly black city in Cuba, the manager of the bar was white, his parents were from a northen Spanish province....

In one of those endless "communist style" meetings of their fake unions, a "union leader" said that it was a lie that the hotel industry (state owned) did not hire black or mulatto staff (it was not a lie) and went to say "all Cubans either have Congo or Carabali blood"...and this man, the manager answered that he did not have any black blood...he was accused of being racist, but since all in the meeting were pinky white (in a black city) they just solved the issue hiring a black "token" that only had to be in his job when members of the State Council from Havana or "party leaders" showed up.
 
Old 06-29-2014, 04:38 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 16 days ago)
 
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Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
Not Cuba

Cuba was predominately a mulatto/black country in the turn of the 20th century.
But among Cuban mulattoes the European component is dominant. I mean, if its slightly dominant among Dominican mulattoes and among Brazilian mulattoes and other mixed peoples, then in Cuba it has to be similar too. Its probably dominant among Puerto Rican mulattoes too.

That's what the various studies are showing pretty much through out Latin America, the European ancestral component is predominant among the mixed peoples. With that into consideration, it would be more appropriate to say that Cuba was predominantly mulatto/white, IMO.

Last edited by AntonioR; 06-29-2014 at 04:47 PM..
 
Old 07-01-2014, 10:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
But among Cuban mulattoes the European component is dominant. I mean, if its slightly dominant among Dominican mulattoes and among Brazilian mulattoes and other mixed peoples, then in Cuba it has to be similar too. Its probably dominant among Puerto Rican mulattoes too.

That's what the various studies are showing pretty much through out Latin America, the European ancestral component is predominant among the mixed peoples. With that into consideration, it would be more appropriate to say that Cuba was predominantly mulatto/white, IMO.
Fair enough, but they are more culturally African.
 
Old 07-01-2014, 11:30 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 16 days ago)
 
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Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
Fair enough, but they are more culturally African.
They are much more culturally African than their counterparts in the rest of Latin America (and the same can be said of black Cubans, many of whom still talk of their African homelands down to the very ethnic group their particular ancestors were from, this is something that is practically unknown in other parts), but I they seem to be overwhelmingly European in culture, just that the African cultural imprint is stronger than in other countries.

By the way, Samuel Hazard described Cuba’s population in 1871 (he visited the island in 1870) in these terms:


Cuba Pen and Pencil by Samuel Hazard (1871)

So basically, 57% of the population was white, 29% were slaves, and 14% were free people of color, most of the last ones were probably mulattoes.
 
Old 07-01-2014, 01:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
They are much more culturally African than their counterparts in the rest of Latin America (and the same can be said of black Cubans, many of whom still talk of their African homelands down to the very ethnic group their particular ancestors were from, this is something that is practically unknown in other parts), but I they seem to be overwhelmingly European in culture, just that the African cultural imprint is stronger than in other countries.

By the way, Samuel Hazard described Cuba’s population in 1871 (he visited the island in 1870) in these terms:


Cuba Pen and Pencil by Samuel Hazard (1871)

So basically, 57% of the population was white, 29% were slaves, and 14% were free people of color, most of the last ones were probably mulattoes.

So this says that under 60% are "white". Some of these no doubt being light skinned mulattos with sufficient status to be accepted as white.

Whats your point, because if it is to imply that Cuba is a European island it isn't working. You will point out that significant 20th C migration from Spain, and ignore that about 100,000 blacks also immigrated from other parts of the Caribbean. You will also ignore the fact that the vast majority of these fleeing Cuba after Castro were among the whitest people on the island.

Cuba is an Afro Iberian society and any attempts to say otherwise will be very misleading. Not only are the majority of Cubans now of mixed ancestry, but Cuba's culture represents a fusion of its Iberian and its West/West Central African heritages.

BTW there were many freed blacks in Cuba. The cabildos were often organized around African ethnic groups, this encouraged by the Spanish who wished these freed blacks to maintain an ethnic rather than a racial identity, to ensure that they remained divided.
 
Old 07-01-2014, 03:13 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 16 days ago)
 
5,196 posts, read 8,029,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
So this says that under 60% are "white". Some of these no doubt being light skinned mulattos with sufficient status to be accepted as white.

Whats your point, because if it is to imply that Cuba is a European island it isn't working.
My point is that the DNA ancestry study that I cited before is correct about Cuba. Most of the genes in Cubans are of European origin and that racial segregation been imposed as in the USA, most of the population there would had been white because even among the mulattoes the European genetic input is a majority. That's what some here have been trying to deny, despite the evidence.

The DNA ancestry study that I cited before was done last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
In this ancestry DNA study we can see what the average Cuban mixture looks like:


PLOS Genetics: Reconstructing the Population Genetic History of the Caribbean

I haven't found a similar study on Brazilians.
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