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Old 07-04-2014, 10:19 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,925,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Mixed folks are a dime a dozen.

In 20k years the entire world will be mixed.


What will racist do when that time comes?


What will you do?

I have already said that Cuba has a mainly mixed population and an Afro Iberian culture.

WHy not address that to people who wish to pretend as if Cuba is a piece of Spain and that the African influence is as minimal to Cuba culture as Chinese culture is to that of the USA?

You should really be debating with AntonioR.

 
Old 07-04-2014, 10:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
As usual the elite look European and the masses of poor people do not. What is your point?



Havana Street

the vast majority of the people in Cuba aren't elite. Your point?
 
Old 07-04-2014, 10:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
.. No question they influenced Cuban public opinion, to the degree that the Cuban governor prohibited any people of color from Haiti to step foot in Cuba. ..

Don't know where you got that from. Haitians have had a powerful impact on the culture of eastern Cuba. Both as a result of the Haitian Revolution, and the migration of many Haitians in the early 20th century.

Urban centers drive the culture of most countries, not isolated rural areas. So who cares about remote communities where they live like 19th century Spaniards. Even the Castro regime (which wishes to portray Cuba as white as possible to justify the gross under representation of blacks and mulattos in top positions) indicates that whites are only 60% of the population. Others put that number closer to 40%.

Do you know that 20-30% of the self identified white population actively participate in the various African religions in Cuba?
 
Old 07-04-2014, 10:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
.
Also, what people forget about Cuba is that many Spaniards fled Spain during the Francisco Franco regime and it turn, many white Cubans have relatively recent roots in Cuba due to this.

I invite people to compare crowds of Cuban Americans in Miami with Cubans in Havana. What is obvious is that most Cuban Americans are quite pale, many having roots in northern Spain. In Cuba they mainly range from swarthy tan to chocolate. To find those pale folks in Havana one must look at the Castro regime.

Lacking deep roots in Cuba many of these recent Spanish arrivals, most coming from northern regions of Spain, fled.

Its always amazing that those who wish to down play the % of blacks or of African culture always dwell on rural areas with high European descended populations. So certain Dominican boast that people from the Cibao (mainly light skinned MULATTOS, not white as some pretend) are the TRUE Dominicans. This when its referenced that most people in Santo Domingo would be considered black in most countries.

AntonioR pulls the same stunt with Cuba. People from Oriente aren't TRUE Cubans. Their presence in Havana is seen as that of interlopers and the true Cubans are the ones who live in certain rural areas, incidentally not the most heavily populated parts of Cuba either. Alternately these folks pretend as if black Cubans are actually Haitians or Jamaicans, conveniently ignoring the fact that this migration occurred at the same time that many recent Spanish immigrants arrived in Cuba.

Scratch the Cuban exiles, and the Castro regime elites deep enough and its amazing how racist they both look!
 
Old 07-04-2014, 10:50 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 12 days ago)
 
5,169 posts, read 8,019,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
A lot of culture is regional throughout the Western Hemisphere and in turn, not too many people know about the concentrations of African based culture whether it is Preston, Nova Scotia, Canada; Camarones, Chile or Ibarra, Ecuador. It doesn't have to dominate to be an integral part of the society at large and it can be dominate in portions of countries, which it is.

There are examples of other cultures, European or otherwise, in Latin America that are large like Italian in Argentina or German and Japanese culture in Brazil. So, there may be other cultures involved.
I know that, but that's not what the discussion is about. Even in Haiti there are regions where there's more of a Hispanic influence compared to the rest of that country, doesn't mean though that Haitian culture is dominated by Hispanic culture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Also, what people forget about Cuba is that many Spaniards fled Spain during the Francisco Franco regime and it turn, many white Cubans have relatively recent roots in Cuba due to this. Remember, many Western Hemisphere countries essentially opened up European immigration to Whiten, for lack of a better term, their countries. This occurred while many Black/African descent folks were declining(i.e.- Argentina). In turn, these new arrivals assimilated into the established White population that was already there. Some of this information is interesting: Racism in Cuba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yes, the recent arrivals also explains the presence of the many white lineages in Cuba. A similar policy was developed in neighboring Haiti, except over there the goal was to increase the black population and for many years it worked. Many Haitian leaders even hated their Dominican neighbors and wanted to annihilate them solely for linguistic/racial reasons. That's probably the only case of a country worrying about what the people in another country looked like or the language they spoke or culture they practiced, and then invaded with the intention of annihilating them. No other country in this hemisphere did a something even remotely similar to that.


http://s25.postimg.org/gakb5wb0f/Faustin_I.jpg

Such are things. And that guy committed a massacre of Haitian mulattoes too. Maybe they were too white for his taste. We can call that the blackening policy, although Haitians wanted to extend that beyond their borders even if that meant violating the peace and right their neighbors had to rule themselves as they see fit. Only country in this hemisphere to have ever done such a thing.
 
Old 07-05-2014, 08:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
the vast majority of the people in Cuba aren't elite. Your point?
The elite often looks European.

The underclass is black or indigenous or both.

The actual percentage is moot. The elite could be 5% or 50%. Nothing changes.!
 
Old 07-05-2014, 11:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
The elite often looks European.

The underclass is black or indigenous or both.

The actual percentage is moot. The elite could be 5% or 50%. Nothing changes.!

Don't know what your problem is. The elite is closer to 5% than it is to 50%, which means that the vast majority of Cubans aren't white.

All your point suggests is that Cuba is another racist Latin American nation where a tiny minority of whites monopolizes power and does its best to keep non whites subordinated. This while singing the song of color blindness.

Cuba is as racist as is the USA, and you make that point very well.
 
Old 07-05-2014, 11:54 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,925,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
I know that, but that's not what the discussion is about. Even in Haiti there are regions where there's more of a Hispanic influence compared to the rest of that country, .

Now you are truly descending into some level of insanity. Which part of Haiti is there more Hispanic influence?

When last I checked Haitian culture was a creole one based on a continuum between French (the elites, especially the mulattos), and an African (the rural peasants being at the more African end of this creole culture). And of course the various levels of US culture now pervade most segments of Haitian society.

Where there is Hispanic influences I don't know, unless Haiti did what many Dominicans fear, and have now conquered that part of the island?

I will also suggest to you that citing an NY Times article isn't proof of anything. The USA was still a slave holding nation, and even in societies where slavery had been abolished, the notion of a black run society still drove fear into the hearts of the white plantocracies throughout the Americas. This why there was an attempt to destroy Haiti by refusing to trade with it, and by forcing Haiti to pay reparations to France, to compensate for the loss of slaves. So yes Haiti was made to appear to be a demonic nation run by blood thirsty heathen savages.

While I have no doubt that there was violence instigated by Haiti those were the times and one need only look at the treatment of blacks and Native Americans in the USA during that era. Or the brutality that the former slaves had received from the French prior to independence. I also suggest that you learn more about how the Anglos treated the Hispanos in California, New Mexico and Texas during the mid- late 19th C.

Last edited by caribny; 07-05-2014 at 12:03 PM..
 
Old 07-05-2014, 01:27 PM
 
691 posts, read 918,542 times
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Speaking of racist..There was a Spanish speaking half-hour sit-com on PBS in the late 80's, about a Cuban-American
family living in Florida..In one story line, the daughter was 2nd generation Americanized and she brought home a fellow
high school student to work on a school project together.

Well, the high school student she brought home was an Afro-AMERICAN male the same age..The family went into a panic
that they might start dating, what if they get married and have kids..etc.? What will their friends think?...In one scene,
the girl stated in Spanish "I didn't know my family was so racist!!"

So near the end of the story..someone knocked at the door and it was an Afro-CUBAN male, whom they knew and they acted
normal with him..the AA guy was there and he(the Cuban) said.."Why are you having a problem with this brother?" "You
don't have a problem with me"...
 
Old 07-05-2014, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
8,071 posts, read 5,391,452 times
Reputation: 5654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
Speaking of racist..There was a Spanish speaking half-hour sit-com on PBS in the late 80's, about a Cuban-American
family living in Florida..In one story line, the daughter was 2nd generation Americanized and she brought home a fellow
high school student to work on a school project together.

Well, the high school student she brought home was an Afro-AMERICAN male the same age..The family went into a panic
that they might start dating, what if they get married and have kids..etc.? What will their friends think?...In one scene,
the girl stated in Spanish "I didn't know my family was so racist!!"

So near the end of the story..someone knocked at the door and it was an Afro-CUBAN male, whom they knew and they acted
normal with him..the AA guy was there and he(the Cuban) said.."Why are you having a problem with this brother?" "You
don't have a problem with me"...
Que pasa USA? I love that show. The writers did bring up racism in several episodes.

This one is not the same episode you described but it deals with a similar theme:


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ScgJyQAT9OQ
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