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Old 07-06-2014, 01:32 PM
 
9,752 posts, read 6,721,123 times
Reputation: 2484

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
Uh no...The burden should not be on blacks to eliminate racism..Whites need to come to terms with certain things on a global
level among themselves as blacks did not create the global White Supremacy System.
You are a bit naive if you expect racism to go away in that manner. AT some level even the most non-racist person will harbor some discrimination based on race.



Quote:
IF blacks mated with whites..THEN..which would mean EVERYONE is BROWN...THEREFORE whites would have DISAPPEARED??
That is the only effective way to eliminate racism. The dark skin folks will have to genetically anhilate the white race.

Quote:
SO could racism be the expression of whites primordial fear of disappearing? and blacks as a race have the most melanin to
make that happen? so they have historically caught the most racial flack???...A minority on a global scale with recessive
genes: light skin, eyes and hair?...just wondering..
Exactly! Interracial dating means the end of the white race.

 
Old 07-06-2014, 01:56 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 12 days ago)
 
5,169 posts, read 8,019,848 times
Reputation: 4264
Haitian Revolution...


http://chechar.files.wordpress.com/2.../massacre2.jpg


http://sfbayview.com/wp-content/uplo...Dessalines.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...do_blancos.jpg


http://static.atlantablackstar.com/w...i-massacre.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Sculp_-_33.jpg
 
Old 07-06-2014, 02:17 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 12 days ago)
 
5,169 posts, read 8,019,848 times
Reputation: 4264
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
No I'm not saying that, but you just contradicted yourself, as you should look at the Dominican situation, whether it was later or not, with the same lens.

Keep in mind, you are talking about an enslaved people and the Spanish were doing the same on the Dominican side of the island in terms of slavery. So, there needs to be attention given to the European aspect as well.
Nope, it was not the same. The French were some of the worst slave owners and even French visitors to their colony on that island commented about that. The Spanish for the most part were some of the most humane and this reduced substantially the potential for racial resentments.

This is what the British William Walton said about slavery in Spanish America. He published this book in 1810.


http://s25.postimg.org/mibwstd1b/1_A.jpg

This is what Moreau de Saint-Mery, a French, said about racial treatments in the Spanish province of Santo Domingo (modern Dominican Republic) in 1798.


http://s25.postimg.org/etf2h3cjj/1_D.jpg


http://s25.postimg.org/ibr2dhdfj/1_C.jpg


http://s25.postimg.org/cq4n9fcqn/1_E.jpg


The population dynamics were also very different.


http://s25.postimg.org/56bk7djjz/1_B.jpg


This is what Charles McKenzie said in the 1820's when he visited the Spanish side of the island.


http://s25.postimg.org/w1q700pxb/2_Cb.jpg

Had it been the same on both sides of the island, then the blacks from the Spanish side would had revolted in large numbers and joined the blacks from the French side in their tormenting and massacring of the white population and the people of color that was clearly not in favor of such atrocities.

Most of the Spanish didn't own slaves and the minority that did in general didn't mistreat them, nor were their slaves treated as slaves.

The Haitians attacked, tormented, and killed any white person for being white and any person of color that refused to take part in such events or that showed a rejection to such excesses. The Spanish/Dominican population almost completely rejected the Haitians and the Haitians reacted as they had done on their side, which is try to annihilate all of them regardless if they were white or not. In Haiti itself, many mulattoes had to show fidelity to the blacks by killing, in front of the black chiefs, their white family members even when it meant killing their own mother, father, brother; sister, cousin or whatever else. Any mulatto that refused to do that would then watch his family be tormented to death and then he too would be tormented and killed. They even tied couples to their beds and burned them alive. They ripped open the wombs of pregnant women and ripped apart the fetuses. The babies were often thrown in the air and hit with the bayonet before it hit the ground, as if they were baseballs.

The Haitian Revolution was simply one of the most complex and dramatic revolution in the history of humanity. Excesses were committed on both side, French against their former slaves and vice versa. But the French got what was coming up their own alley for being so cruel to their slaves.

However, what was done on the Spanish side of island simply has no excuse because the Spanish were different from the French, as I've shown here.

Last edited by AntonioR; 07-06-2014 at 02:28 PM..
 
Old 07-07-2014, 01:14 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,925,572 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
.

However, what was done on the Spanish side of island simply has no excuse because the Spanish were different from the French, as I've shown here.
I suggest you research the genocide against blacks in Cuba in 1912. Why did this happen? Because Cuban blacks demanded inclusion in the governance of that island when it became independent, given that Cuban blacks and mulattos accounted for the bulk of those who fought against Spanish rule.


It is obvious that you have no knowledge of slavery, and to show how pathetic your knowledge is, you rely on sources of known racists of the 18th and 19th century who felt that the natural condition of the black was to be a slave.

So why was slavery more benign on the Spanish than on the French side of the island of Hispaniola. Because the Spanish side was a semi subsistence economy where the plantation system had all but died out. There was no economic need for a highly regulated system of slavery, so slaves weren't valuable, so they were ignored, and indeed many easily found ways to free themselves. So there wasn't the social stratification that one would find in the plantation based societies.

It is not a coincidence that blacks in Cuba have a more defined identity based on being black than is the case for the DR, and PR. This is the legacy of slavery on that island.

Now let us look at two Iberian societies where a highly developed plantation system developed based on sugar, and in the case of Brazil, also gold. We can easily see that slavery in Brazil and Cuba was virtually the same as it was in the British, French and Dutch colonies. Your notion that there weren't racial resentments is garbage. Slave rebellions were quite common in Cuba, and Brazil, and they were put down with the same ferocity that the British, French and Dutch put down their slave rebellions.

Cuba also had a system of race based social clubs. Why if all were a happy benign family?



And just to show your callous disregard, and racist attitude towards blacks, the brutality that was displayed by these whites was every bit as brutal as was the case of Haiti. Slaves involved in rebellions were often beheaded and their heads placed on spikes on the roads to intimidate other slaves. Slaves who were runaways suffered decapitation. Disemboweling pregnant females slaves was not uncommon to allow the slave to be punished, without risking death of the baby, which was seen as property.

Indeed so intense was the animosity between the slaves in the Spanish colonies that maroon settlements developed in Colombia, and well as among the Portuguese colonies in Pernambuco and Salvador. If you don't know who Zumbi is then you are not entitled to discuss slavery.

The point being that what differentiated slavery wasn't the nationality of the colonizers. It was the extent to which slaves were seen as economically valuable, and the extent to which large numbers of African born slaves existed.
 
Old 07-07-2014, 01:22 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,925,572 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miserere View Post
A heard in Cuba that a lot of Afrocubans live in Hialeah, Afrocubans leaving the country is a quite recent phenomena. The started to leave from Periodo Especial (1992) onward, when the USSR cut subsidies.

Once, a retired Cuban security colonel working as a taxi driver or "botero" told me that communists were very disappointed with Afrocubans because their role model were Afroamericans. The great failure of the communists education system was that it ignored completely the fact that there were blacks in Cuba.

According to communists, since in Cuba there's no racism (not true), every black complaining of racism is an agent of "yankee imperialism".

In Cuba, there's a lot of racial hatred because during the 60's and 70's the government used blacks to go against white "worms" or the remnants of the bourgeoisie....Since the remnants of the bourgeoise are now in power (plus fiercely racist guajiros or peasants), the result is that the country looks like Alabama before equality laws.

According to a study of Cuban blacks in the USA, they report GREATER racism from white Cubans, than from American whites. In addition most Cuban blacks do NOT live among white Cubans. This might have changed within the last 10 years, to some degree but certainly those who arrived in the 80s and 90s lived very segregated from the Cuban counterparts.

Cuban exiles have suddenly decided to pretend to be less racist as a way of developing a moral high ground relative to the Castro regime. However the facts indicate that, despite Cuban domination of Miami, Cuban blacks in that city are no better off than are Haitians, and indeed aren't much better off than black Americans and are much worse off than are West Indians. Cuban blacks do NOT benefit from the fact that Cuban own and run Miami.

Oh yes Cuban exiles will find a token Cuban black ore two to disguise these facts.

Social and Economic Adjustment of Afro-Cubans in the United States: Racial ... - Michelle Hay - Google Books


The notion of a Cuban exile talking about racism in Cuba is a joke, given that Miami is one of the MOST RACIST cities in the USA. Indeed blacks are LEAVING that city, for Broward and other areas not controlled by Cubans!
 
Old 07-07-2014, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
8,071 posts, read 5,391,452 times
Reputation: 5654
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
The notion of a Cuban exile talking about racism in Cuba is a joke, given that Miami is one of the MOST RACIST cities in the USA. Indeed blacks are LEAVING that city, for Broward and other areas not controlled by Cubans!
How did you arrive to that conclusion?

There is racism in Miami but this place is hardly the most racist city in the US. Miami has many challenges than other places is the US don't have like 70% of its population is foreign born which limits the amounts of jobs for non Spanish speakers. There are plenty of US cities where English is wildly spoken and blacks make up a good proportion of the city's population and you rarely see blacks in good paying positions. I was very shocked when I visited some southern states and I rarely saw blacks in professional settings because I was used to seeing blacks in those positions here in Miami.

I know plenty of blacks here in Miami who earn very good salaries. Of course it is easier for a non Spanish speaker to succeed in Broward since Spanish is not required for many positions.
 
Old 07-07-2014, 08:37 AM
 
9,752 posts, read 6,721,123 times
Reputation: 2484
People assume that there is racism when blacks have less employment than whites.


Could it be that racism has been removed, and that some blacks have not taken advantage of the opportunities. available to them
 
Old 07-07-2014, 08:40 AM
 
56,531 posts, read 80,824,285 times
Reputation: 12482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
People assume that there is racism when blacks have less employment than whites.


Could it be that racism has been removed, and that some blacks have not taken advantage of the opportunities. available to them
Then, is it a matter of bad choice or inferiority/superiority or could racism, which isn't just names and hate groups, but can be systemic, play a part? It isn't a simple answer, but it isn't just relegated to just Miami and is something that occurs nationwide.
 
Old 07-07-2014, 08:41 AM
 
56,531 posts, read 80,824,285 times
Reputation: 12482
Ironically, without it, there isn't an United States as we know it(take a look at the Louisiana Purchase) and think about why they revolted in the first place.
 
Old 07-07-2014, 08:45 AM
 
56,531 posts, read 80,824,285 times
Reputation: 12482
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Nope, it was not the same. The French were some of the worst slave owners and even French visitors to their colony on that island commented about that. The Spanish for the most part were some of the most humane and this reduced substantially the potential for racial resentments.

This is what the British William Walton said about slavery in Spanish America. He published this book in 1810.


http://s25.postimg.org/mibwstd1b/1_A.jpg

This is what Moreau de Saint-Mery, a French, said about racial treatments in the Spanish province of Santo Domingo (modern Dominican Republic) in 1798.


http://s25.postimg.org/etf2h3cjj/1_D.jpg


http://s25.postimg.org/ibr2dhdfj/1_C.jpg


http://s25.postimg.org/cq4n9fcqn/1_E.jpg


The population dynamics were also very different.


http://s25.postimg.org/56bk7djjz/1_B.jpg


This is what Charles McKenzie said in the 1820's when he visited the Spanish side of the island.


http://s25.postimg.org/w1q700pxb/2_Cb.jpg

Had it been the same on both sides of the island, then the blacks from the Spanish side would had revolted in large numbers and joined the blacks from the French side in their tormenting and massacring of the white population and the people of color that was clearly not in favor of such atrocities.

Most of the Spanish didn't own slaves and the minority that did in general didn't mistreat them, nor were their slaves treated as slaves.

The Haitians attacked, tormented, and killed any white person for being white and any person of color that refused to take part in such events or that showed a rejection to such excesses. The Spanish/Dominican population almost completely rejected the Haitians and the Haitians reacted as they had done on their side, which is try to annihilate all of them regardless if they were white or not. In Haiti itself, many mulattoes had to show fidelity to the blacks by killing, in front of the black chiefs, their white family members even when it meant killing their own mother, father, brother; sister, cousin or whatever else. Any mulatto that refused to do that would then watch his family be tormented to death and then he too would be tormented and killed. They even tied couples to their beds and burned them alive. They ripped open the wombs of pregnant women and ripped apart the fetuses. The babies were often thrown in the air and hit with the bayonet before it hit the ground, as if they were baseballs.

The Haitian Revolution was simply one of the most complex and dramatic revolution in the history of humanity. Excesses were committed on both side, French against their former slaves and vice versa. But the French got what was coming up their own alley for being so cruel to their slaves.

However, what was done on the Spanish side of island simply has no excuse because the Spanish were different from the French, as I've shown here.
Is that true about the Spanish?: http://www.u.arizona.edu/~jag/POL596...ilblackdom.pdf (nice guy, by the way, as I see him on campus all of the time)
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