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Old 07-07-2014, 08:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Then, is it a matter of bad choice or inferiority/superiority or could racism, which isn't just names and hate groups, but can be systemic, play a part? It isn't a simple answer, but it isn't just relegated to just Miami and is something that occurs nationwide.
Ending racism is not enough to elevate the poor people of color. It is not that simple.

Building great schools in the inner cities with the best teachers in the world will not work either.

 
Old 07-07-2014, 08:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Ending racism is not enough to elevate the poor people of color. It is not that simple.

Building great schools in the inner cities with the best teachers in the world will not work either.
Why do you say the latter? That doesn't make sense given that education is the best thing to obtain in order to get out of poverty. I do think it starts at the home, but there also has to be high expectations within the school system as well. There seems to be a mismatch in that regard.
Not to sidetrack the thread, but this is some interesting info: Study finds broad income inequality - Buffalo - Business First

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 07-07-2014 at 09:04 AM..
 
Old 07-07-2014, 09:57 AM
 
9,888 posts, read 6,758,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Why do you say the latter? That doesn't make sense given that education is the best thing to obtain in order to get out of poverty. I do think it starts at the home, but there also has to be high expectations within the school system as well. There seems to be a mismatch in that regard.
Not to sidetrack the thread, but this is some interesting info: Study finds broad income inequality - Buffalo - Business First
The District of Columbia spends more money per pupil than practically anyone else in the planet. IN 2010 they spent 30,000 dollars per student and the graduation rate was less than 60% and achievement scores among the lowest in the developed world.


With 30,000 a year a family could send a kid to Georgetown Prep a famous Jesuit School in DC and have enough money left for a nice vacation.

How do you explain the failure?


My issue is that ending racism is not enough. There is something else that is missing.

Quote:
You would think $30,000 a year would get you a decent education. For just a few thousand more, you could cover the cost of Harvard’s yearly undergraduate tuition or send your child to the prestigious Sidwell Friends School, which the Obama daughters attend.

But spending $30,000 to cover the cost of a child’s education in a district that has one of the lowest graduation rates in the nation and produces some of the country’s lowest achievement scores? Seems a bit steep. But this is the hefty per-pupil bill taxpayers are made to foot for D.C. public schools every year.

Despite this astounding price tag—$29,409 for the 2009–2010 school year, to be exact, compared to the national average of just under $12,500 (both figures are total expenditures calculated on a per-pupil basis, including capital outlays)—the graduation rate for D.C. students hovers around 60 percent, well below the nationwide average of 74 percent. Math and reading scores are also among the lowest in the country.

Andrew Coulson of the Cato Institute, who calculated D.C.’s per-pupil cost, explains that the first time he revealed D.C.’s high per-pupil spending a few years ago, he received considerable pushback. Critics claimed his estimate was too high and was inconsistent with the Census Bureau’s numbers.

“Indeed, the Census Bureau figures for DC’s total K-12 expenditures were substantially lower than mine,” he explains.

Why the inconsistency?

“It turns out, [Census] got [D.C. spending data] from a DCPS [D.C. Public Schools] official,” notes Coulson. “We presented evidence to the Bureau that that DCPS official had missed a few line items when completing the Census Bureau’s forms—to the tune of about $400 million.” Census agreed, and their “data now show DC spent a total of $29,409 per pupil.”

When it comes to improving education, more spending has failed to achieve results.

On the other hand, the D.C. Opportunity Scholarship Program (DCOSP), which provides scholarships to low-income students in the nation’s capital to attend private schools of their choice, not only produces significantly higher graduation rates than D.C. public schools but costs significantly less. A DCOSP scholarship stands at just $8,000 for a K-8 student or $12,000 for a 9-12 grade student.
D.C. Public Schools Spend Almost $30,000 Per Student
 
Old 07-07-2014, 12:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Could it be that racism has been removed, and that some blacks have not taken advantage of the opportunities. available to them

So explain why does a black male who graduated college earn the same as a white male ho only graduated high school? Are you going to tell me that the black male who went to college isn't attempting to take advantage of opportunities.

You know it is always interesting how some people love to define 100% of the black population by the 30% who are trapped in poverty and dependency.
 
Old 07-07-2014, 12:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post


My issue is that ending racism is not enough. There is something else that is missing.



D.C. Public Schools Spend Almost $30,000 Per Student

Ending racism will not solve the problems of the black poor, but it would make life for other blacks much easier.

I don't know if you know this but most blacks aren't poor, and the % of blacks with a college degree has DOUBLED over the past twenty, and indeed black women are now as likely to attend college as other females.

Indeed in 2010 10% of the bachelors degrees and 12% of the masters degrees were awarded to blacks.

It will do you well if you cease defining blacks by what you see in the inner city.
 
Old 07-07-2014, 12:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
So explain why does a black male who graduated college earn the same as a white male ho only graduated high school? Are you going to tell me that the black male who went to college isn't attempting to take advantage of opportunities.

You know it is always interesting how some people love to define 100% of the black population by the 30% who are trapped in poverty and dependency.
Ending racism can work, but up to a certain point. The most non-racist person in the world will have some residual racism. Even if we achieve a society where 100% of the people have brown skin we may still see racism.

Same thing happens to women, they tale low paying jobs all the time.


The other issue is the way things are set up in the USA. Sometimes those that work as journalist do not have a degree in journalism and those with a degree in journalism are unemployed.

I need more info regarding your example above. Some college degrees offer ZERO advantage over a high school degree. Can you be more specific?
 
Old 07-07-2014, 12:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Ending racism will not solve the problems of the black poor, but it would make life for other blacks much easier.

I don't know if you know this but most blacks aren't poor, and the % of blacks with a college degree has DOUBLED over the past twenty, and indeed black women are now as likely to attend college as other females.

Indeed in 2010 10% of the bachelors degrees and 12% of the masters degrees were awarded to blacks.

It will do you well if you cease defining blacks by what you see in the inner city.
I agree! Ending racism will help the black folks that are well in the upper brackets.


Those in the lower brackets may not see any benefit.
 
Old 07-07-2014, 02:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Ending racism can work, but up to a certain point. The most non-racist person in the world will have some residual racism. Even if we achieve a society where 100% of the people have brown skin we may still see racism.

Same thing happens to women, they tale low paying jobs all the time.


The other issue is the way things are set up in the USA. Sometimes those that work as journalist do not have a degree in journalism and those with a degree in journalism are unemployed.

I need more info regarding your example above. Some college degrees offer ZERO advantage over a high school degree. Can you be more specific?

Loads of kids from wealthy white families graduate with degrees as useful as Russian Weaving and yet aren't fighting to get jobs as janitors. There isn't any job related skill that this degree has, so what's your problem.

The vast majority of college majors in this country don't by themselves prepare one for work. The role that most degrees serve is to provide an indication that the person has the ability and the discipline to learn, and more than basic literacy, numeracy, and cognitive skills.

Women aren't any less ambitious than are men, and neither are college educated blacks (4 year degree) relative to whites. What both groups lack will be the range of social capital that white men have, given that white men still run this country. People are still judged with white males being used as the gauge of success.

I am not comparing college educated black men to college educated white men, because then factors like the quality of schools attended, the degrees pursued, etc., will have impact, even if race wasn't a factor.

I do find it odd that a white high school graduate (not the cream of the crop as they don't have tertiary level education) will earn what a male black 4 year college grad earns. Obviously something is wrong here.

I will summarize a comment made by Condi Rice, hardly a black militant or a race baiter. She asserts that when people are looking for suitable candidates they have to look beyond the usual packaging (white male/ and or Ivy League degree).

I noticed something recently. Crain's published the list of the 200 most connected people in NYC. Of these 13 were blacks (I wonder if there will be any blacks/dark mulattos in a similar list in Sao Paulo). 30% of the whites came from Harvard "B" or Law schools, as did 80% of the blacks. It seemed to me as if black people needed this credentialing a lot more than whites do. Blacks still go through additional scrutiny when being hired for high paid professional jobs.
 
Old 07-07-2014, 02:37 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,947,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
I agree! Ending racism will help the black folks that are well in the upper brackets.


Those in the lower brackets may not see any benefit.


Snarky and frankly ridiculous comments will not get you any where. You know full well that most blacks who attempt to play by the rules are in the middle class, and fighting mightily hard to stay above water.
 
Old 07-07-2014, 03:04 PM
 
9,888 posts, read 6,758,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Snarky and frankly ridiculous comments will not get you any where. You know full well that most blacks who attempt to play by the rules are in the middle class, and fighting mightily hard to stay above water.
Oops, I am sorry. I posted the above to agree with you.

I agree, that minorities have a hard time competing when the majority is white.

We are a barbaric society where people still have to swimm real hard just to keep the head above water. And this is true for all ethnicities.

We have a long ways to go and we are still very close to our highly primitive barbaric roots.

Fighting to stay above water means that we need to evolve a lot as a society.
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