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Old 07-07-2014, 03:34 PM
 
56,518 posts, read 80,824,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Snarky and frankly ridiculous comments will not get you any where. You know full well that most blacks who attempt to play by the rules are in the middle class, and fighting mightily hard to stay above water.
Basically and good point about not viewing Black people through just an inner city lens.

About the other school post, I already explained the complexity within urban schools. On the other hand, you can find schools that are urban and diverse, with solid achievement and Blacks having a higher graduation rate. So, you can find those examples as well.

 
Old 07-07-2014, 03:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Oops, I am sorry. I posted the above to agree with you.

I agree, that minorities have a hard time competing when the majority is white.

We are a barbaric society where people still have to swimm real hard just to keep the head above water. And this is true for all ethnicities.

We have a long ways to go and we are still very close to our highly primitive barbaric roots.

Fighting to stay above water means that we need to evolve a lot as a society.

OK wished you phrased it a bit better.

Reality is that the USA has an increasingly problem with income inequality, and poor Americans OF ALL RACES, bring with them legions of dysfunction. Indeed the poorest parts of KY some to have problems even deeper than the inner cities. There the problem is female headed household. Sadly in the poorest parts of KY its NO PARENT households with grandparents rescuing kids from drug or alcohol addicted parents.
 
Old 07-07-2014, 04:28 PM
 
9,751 posts, read 6,721,123 times
Reputation: 2484
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
OK wished you phrased it a bit better.

Reality is that the USA has an increasingly problem with income inequality, and poor Americans OF ALL RACES, bring with them legions of dysfunction. Indeed the poorest parts of KY some to have problems even deeper than the inner cities. There the problem is female headed household. Sadly in the poorest parts of KY its NO PARENT households with grandparents rescuing kids from drug or alcohol addicted parents.
We are a barbaric society that does not take care of their own. We are very close to the jungle where the lion eats the weak at all times. Sadly, the white folks that are very poor continue to support the right wing because they somehow identify with them. It is very ironic.

As I said eliminating racism is the first step, but that is not enough when entire segments of society do not have a background of academics or accomplishments. The US should have done a Marshall plan with the oppressed minorities, but they rather spend the money elsewhere.

As long as poor people do not have stable homes they cannot take advantage of schooling. I am certain there are exceptions that need to be applauded, but most folks revert back to what they know.

Sometimes a change within a group takes many generations. This cannot be done overnight.



Income inequality is a joke. I am all for the abolition of money. BY definition an advanced society does not have inequality. Advanced people see greatness in achievements that has nothing to do with greed. As long as we have greed we are no different than the savage animals in the jungle.
 
Old 07-07-2014, 06:14 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,925,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
We are a barbaric society that does not take care of their own. We are very close to the jungle where the lion eats the weak at all times. Sadly, the white folks that are very poor continue to support the right wing because they somehow identify with them. It is very ironic.
.

I have come to the conclusion that issues concerning eliminating racism and encouraging diversity are more appropriate for the upward mobile (or upwardly mobile aspiring) blacks who have the mindset to move forward.

A race neutral class based set of programs will need to be developed for the poor. Unless poor whites start voting their ECONOMIC interests, and stop supporting policies which benefit the white elites, there will be limited success in enacting policies to help the poor. Race neutrality will have to be the focus to woo these whites over.

A rural and urban agenda needs to be enacted. Policies not to provide hand outs, but to provide hand ups should be discussed. An increased emphasis on adult education should be aggressively pursued. Help in accessing child care to help the working poor. Programs to encourage parents to be more involved in the education process for their kids is important.
 
Old 07-08-2014, 01:51 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 12 days ago)
 
5,168 posts, read 8,019,848 times
Reputation: 4264
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Is that true about the Spanish?: http://www.u.arizona.edu/~jag/POL596...ilblackdom.pdf (nice guy, by the way, as I see him on campus all of the time)
Silvio Torres-Saillant is known for his negation that Dominicans are a conspicuously mixed race people. Recent DNA studies has sort of proven him wrong. His underlying premise, such as is evident in the article you cited that he published in 1998 (before ancestry DNA testing was even possible), is that Dominicans don't have much blood of anything else other than black. DNA studies shows that Dominicans are in essence a mulatto population with about as much black and white blood mixed in the typical person.

This becomes evident the numerous times he claims that Dominicans have been 'indoctrinated' to not see themselves as black. Well, they are largely a mixed race population and most mixed race people in most countries are not made to see themselves as if they were one or the other. Its, in fact, in the United States where black/white mixed people have been indoctrinated to see themselves as black and only as black, often times reaching such levels that millions of mixed race Americans not only are not aware they are actually mixed, but are offended if anyone tells them that they are. These twins are a perfect example of that:



Silvio Torres Saillant's premise is akin to claiming that Latin American mestizos are 'indoctrinated' to not see themselves as Amerindians. Well, if something is true then its not an indoctrination. Mestizos are a mixed people, mostly Spanish mixed with Amerindians. They are not Amerindians, they are mixed (that's what mestizo means since the word derives from mezcla which means to mix) and they see themselves like that because that's what they are. The same happens with other types of mixed people, including mulattoes.

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Imagine how the coloured (mulatto) population of South Africa would react to such a comment about a population that is overwhelmingly and conspicuously mixed.



Imagine those mulatto people reading the things Silvio Torres-Saillant has written about a mulatto majority country. It will simply not make sense to them.

In my opinion, Silvio Torres-Saillant is exactly the type of person Thomas Sowell refers to in this video.


Last edited by Poncho_NM; 07-09-2014 at 11:54 AM..
 
Old 07-17-2014, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,144,182 times
Reputation: 9478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miserere View Post
I don't think that Cuba is similar to Brazil, Cuba is similar, very similar, to Alabama 20 or 30 years ago.
You'll have to explain that one. Never heard that be said, and would be interesting to hear in what way.
 
Old 07-17-2014, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,144,182 times
Reputation: 9478
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
This also doesn't get into the fact that if Haiti didn't have its Revolution, there may not be the United States as were now know it. By getting the French out of Haiti, it in turn got the French to give up the Louisiana Purchase and that allowed the US to go from sea to shining sea, eventually. Haiti has in part been neglected on a worldwide scale due to their revolution, whether people think about it or not.
That would be an interesting world. Both of my grandmothers were French, and both emigrated to Michigan. Detroit was once a French outpost.

Michigan wasn't part of the Louisiana Purchase, but it's making me think that if Montreal, Louisiana, and all that was the Louisiana Purchase was French....than it could have been technically POSSIBLE that Michigan/Detroit could have ended up French as well.

Anyways you got my mind drifting on that one a bit!
 
Old 07-22-2014, 04:50 AM
 
1,554 posts, read 1,470,982 times
Reputation: 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Silvio Torres-Saillant is known for his negation that Dominicans are a conspicuously mixed race people. Recent DNA studies has sort of proven him wrong. His underlying premise, such as is evident in the article you cited that he published in 1998 (before ancestry DNA testing was even possible), is that Dominicans don't have much blood of anything else other than black. DNA studies shows that Dominicans are in essence a mulatto population with about as much black and white blood mixed in the typical person.

This becomes evident the numerous times he claims that Dominicans have been 'indoctrinated' to not see themselves as black. Well, they are largely a mixed race population and most mixed race people in most countries are not made to see themselves as if they were one or the other. Its, in fact, in the United States where black/white mixed people have been indoctrinated to see themselves as black and only as black, often times reaching such levels that millions of mixed race Americans not only are not aware they are actually mixed, but are offended if anyone tells them that they are. These twins are a perfect example of that:



Silvio Torres Saillant's premise is akin to claiming that Latin American mestizos are 'indoctrinated' to not see themselves as Amerindians. Well, if something is true then its not an indoctrination. Mestizos are a mixed people, mostly Spanish mixed with Amerindians. They are not Amerindians, they are mixed (that's what mestizo means since the word derives from mezcla which means to mix) and they see themselves like that because that's what they are. The same happens with other types of mixed people, including mulattoes.

Moderator cut: The Terms of Service state:

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Your post has been edited


Imagine how the coloured (mulatto) population of South Africa would react to such a comment about a population that is overwhelmingly and conspicuously mixed.



Imagine those mulatto people reading the things Silvio Torres-Saillant has written about a mulatto majority country. It will simply not make sense to them.

In my opinion, Silvio Torres-Saillant is exactly the type of person Thomas Sowell refers to in this video.

Silvio Torres Saillant contradicts himself sometimes and can be all over the place at times. In this recent panel discussion on Dominican identity and race issues Silvio Torres Saillant gave a much more nuanced approach to the panel convo discussion and some of it goes against what he says in the PDF link.

Watch the entire Dominican identity and race panel video here. Silvio Torres Saillant and other people and viewpoints are featured. It would have been nice if they had more time or went deeper:

HuffPost Live

Last edited by SobreTodo; 07-22-2014 at 05:06 AM..
 
Old 07-22-2014, 05:19 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,925,572 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugah Ray View Post
How did you arrive to that conclusion?


I know plenty of blacks here in Miami who earn very good salaries. Of course it is easier for a non Spanish speaker to succeed in Broward since Spanish is not required for many positions.

Given that black American professionals are leaving Miami for other southern cities I am curious about which ones that you refer to.

Indeed apparently even Cuban blacks don't see Miami as being a fair city, even though their own fellow country men ran it.

Social and Economic Adjustment of Afro-Cubans in the United States: Racial ... - Michelle Hay - Google Books
In addition most Southern whites will admit to their history. The only times these white Cubans talk about race is when they pretend to be so worried about the plight of blacks living under Fidel Castro. They aren't as interested when the conversation switches to Miami.

I suggest that you take a look at that link.
 
Old 07-22-2014, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
8,071 posts, read 5,391,452 times
Reputation: 5654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
People assume that there is racism when blacks have less employment than whites.


Could it be that racism has been removed, and that some blacks have not taken advantage of the opportunities. available to them
Please, sometimes it's obvious there is racism.

I will not name the US cities but I visited some large cities through work in the "deep south"(the places CaribNY thinks are soooo accepting) These cities have a high percentage of African Americans and I only saw 1 black person working in management. One. A lady that had black skin but that behaved whiter than white. So white that when she was buying her home many realtors thought she was white over the phone and then when they saw her in person some didn't show her the homes.

Some places have so much discrimination that if someone told me these stories I would not believe them. Yes the people where nice and polite but their actions spoke louder than their words.
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