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Old 01-10-2012, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post
-----------

Very, very different.
And again, the population at the slums of Havana and Santiago is not representative of Cuba.
I travel all around the island extensively and the interior is mostly white.
Recently I was at a birthday party of Redneck Cubans near Moron, Camagüey, there were perhaps 300 people and not a single person with non-white blood in them. Redneck Cubans are no different from Rednecks from Alabama 50 years ago.
But it's not about race.
When I see PR and Dominican "students" in Havana, or invited because they belong to some "Progressist" (Anti-American) organization, they stand out as a sore thumb even in predominantly black neighbourhoods as La Lisa, in Havana.
You can also tell apart a 100 percent black Cuban from a 100 percent black American or Caribbean immediately.
The girl actually believed you because during the last 15 to 17 years many non-whites are leaving the country, before they never left because the USSR paid them their lunch and they did not have to work.
I guess I am not understanding you properly. So your saying white Cubans are representative of the population but not blacks or mulattoes? So you discount the darker Cubans because they came from a dark province and are originally from Haiti but you don't do the same with the European immigrants who came from different parts of Europe all in the sad attempt to whiten the country? Like I said before, besides the natives Amerindian tribes, Cuba was suppose to be a majority black and mulatto country. It's demographics where mostly of Afro-descended people before the whitening process, so if anything those whites are fake and definitely do not represent the average Cuban. Real Cubans are the darker ones who fought for their freedom, who went through all the hardships in what was at one point, a very racist country. Anyways, I was told that Cuba nowadays is majority black and mulatto, which I approve of because things are back to how it originally was supposed to be.

Good luck convincing everyone that the average Cuban looks German. Dominicans and Puerto Ricans would stick out but drop anyone from Estonia, Germany, Russia, and they would fit in like a charm.

 
Old 01-10-2012, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
5,515 posts, read 17,672,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post
-------

I'm not saying that the average Cuban looks German, I just told you that 70 percent of the population of the island does not look like those Africans that you posted. I told you that Africans are concentrated in a few places were tourists are abondant.

There are a bunch of Africans and Mulattoes, but the majority of the population are "white cuban", "color cartucho", "pelo duro" etc...They might have some black blood in them, but could pass for white in any neighbouring country.
I never said those "mulattos" or "morenos" (not Africans) where the most common in Cuba. However, that is one type of Cuban phenotype. In other words, there are Cubans currently in Cuba who look like your so called "africans". So again, if you drop those Dominicans I posted in whatever part of Cuba, they will not stand out. People would think that they're Cuban Africans who migrated from said region.

Also mind you, I am only using the "moreno" or darker Dominicans in my argument. If you want, I can bring out lighter Dominicans if it would please you so.


Quote:
The typical Cuban is Liborio and all prominent Cubans were and are "criollos", except Maceo and Batista (the former mulatto dictator). Máximo Gómez was also a prominent figure, he was Dominican but white.

The only important black in government is Esteban Lazo (Gorilazo)


The most typical Cuban is Liborio, he's the Cuban Uncle Sam.
Havana City:







Cuban Military:



Cienfuegos:









Havana city is full of dark people. Even Cienfuegos, which I will admit is overwhelmingly white, has black people like I showed above. My point is that there are blacks in all parts of Cuba, even in the whitest area.



Quote:
And yes, people can spot an African Dominican from an African Cuban right away.
Yes, Cuban blacks look straight out of Africa with little to no admixture, while Non-Haitian descendant Dominicans are more admixed.
 
Old 01-10-2012, 11:13 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,943 posts, read 36,139,074 times
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^^^^

1st photo - woman with yellow sweat pants/black top. Is that more representative of indigeneous mix in there? What mix is in there?
 
Old 01-11-2012, 03:20 PM
 
2,816 posts, read 5,383,029 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post
Pepe Botella (Jose I, the brother of Napoleon and King of Spain during a brief interlude, perhaps the only King that truly loved Spain).
Now I've heard it all. I hear Cromwell loved Ireland too.
 
Old 01-11-2012, 08:33 PM
 
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The population of Cuba during the 16th and 17th century was in the majority white.Even with the beginning of the large sugar expansion and increase of the importation of slaves the 1792 census was 56.4 white.At the height of the sugar boom in 1841 the white population dropped to the all time low of 41.5.After that it began to rise though more Spanish/European immigration,until at the end of the colonial era in 1899 the white percentage was 67.9.During the first half of the 20th century with a huge Spanish and a large Haitian and Jamaican immigration to Cuba,the last pre-Castro census showed the white population at 74.3.Since many of the anti-Castro exiles were white the last census showed the white population at 65.05 percent.Now all of the census at least after 1899 and probably before,were based on self-identification on the census forms,so its likely that there is a 5-10% mistake on the figures.But even with that said ,Cuba has always been a home to white,black,brown people.There is no such thing as Cuba "originally was supposed to be" a black or mulatto country,anymore than it was supposed to be a white country.In the old Oriente province in the Baracoa region was where probably the most Indian descendent people live,and in some of the rural areas and cities you find a few people of Chinese or more commonly mixed Chinese and white/black/mulatto people.During the colonial period the same mix of peoples were to be found in Puerto Rico as in Cuba.They are very much alike.Both Antillian,both heavy Spanish immigration,both part black and mulatto.As for the Dominican Republic,until the beginning of the 19th century they would have fit the same mold as their Antillian neighbors,but they diverge from that period on.In the first years of the 19th century they lost a great part of their white population and missed the 19th and 20th centuries vast Spanish immigration that Cuba and Puerto Rico received.Spanish and other European immigration was small compared to the other two islands.As well, the years of Haitian rule left a great deal of Haitian population mixing in the Dominican Republic,possibly 20-30 percent of the population having Haitian ancestry.So while the population of Cuba and Puerto Rico are very close,only portions of the Dominican population could be considered as close to the other two.As to Brazil and Cuba,I would say that out of all South American countries,Brazil would be the closest to Cuba in population make-up.True that Brazil has a higher Indian percentage,but unlike the rest of South America the white,black and mulatto population makes the same elements as in Cuba.The nearest other country in South America with a similar population would be Venezuela.But still in Venezuela the mestizo population is a majority,which is not true in Brazil or Cuba.

Last edited by Uncle Robert; 01-11-2012 at 09:31 PM..
 
Old 01-12-2012, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,757 posts, read 33,946,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Robert View Post
The population of Cuba during the 16th and 17th century was in the majority white.Even with the beginning of the large sugar expansion and increase of the importation of slaves the 1792 census was 56.4 white.At the height of the sugar boom in 1841 the white population dropped to the all time low of 41.5.After that it began to rise though more Spanish/European immigration,until at the end of the colonial era in 1899 the white percentage was 67.9.During the first half of the 20th century with a huge Spanish and a large Haitian and Jamaican immigration to Cuba,the last pre-Castro census showed the white population at 74.3.Since many of the anti-Castro exiles were white the last census showed the white population at 65.05 percent.Now all of the census at least after 1899 and probably before,were based on self-identification on the census forms,so its likely that there is a 5-10% mistake on the figures.But even with that said ,Cuba has always been a home to white,black,brown people.There is no such thing as Cuba "originally was supposed to be" a black or mulatto country,anymore than it was supposed to be a white country.In the old Oriente province in the Baracoa region was where probably the most Indian descendent people live,and in some of the rural areas and cities you find a few people of Chinese or more commonly mixed Chinese and white/black/mulatto people.During the colonial period the same mix of peoples were to be found in Puerto Rico as in Cuba.They are very much alike.Both Antillian,both heavy Spanish immigration,both part black and mulatto.As for the Dominican Republic,until the beginning of the 19th century they would have fit the same mold as their Antillian neighbors,but they diverge from that period on.In the first years of the 19th century they lost a great part of their white population and missed the 19th and 20th centuries vast Spanish immigration that Cuba and Puerto Rico received.Spanish and other European immigration was small compared to the other two islands.As well, the years of Haitian rule left a great deal of Haitian population mixing in the Dominican Republic,possibly 20-30 percent of the population having Haitian ancestry.So while the population of Cuba and Puerto Rico are very close,only portions of the Dominican population could be considered as close to the other two.As to Brazil and Cuba,I would say that out of all South American countries,Brazil would be the closest to Cuba in population make-up.True that Brazil has a higher Indian percentage,but unlike the rest of South America the white,black and mulatto population makes the same elements as in Cuba.The nearest other country in South America with a similar population would be Venezuela.But still in Venezuela the mestizo population is a majority,which is not true in Brazil or Cuba.
My family is from Baracoa and is Afro-Cuban/French-mulatto Haitian/Canary Islander and Chinese. Dunno about any indigenous origins.
 
Old 01-15-2012, 12:21 PM
 
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If you mean both countries have a diverse variety of people of every biological mixture then yes.
 
Old 01-15-2012, 08:35 PM
 
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.

Last edited by slowlane3; 01-15-2012 at 08:40 PM.. Reason: redundant
 
Old 01-15-2012, 08:38 PM
 
3,499 posts, read 4,954,121 times
Reputation: 3488
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
Of course. Native Americans and indigenous Mexicans look like Brazilians. Peruvians look like Brazilians.
Not true at all. How can you say that?? Very few Mexicans, and virtually no Peruvians, have African ancestry, curly hair, or African facial features. While Brazil on the other hand has probably more black people than any country in the world outside of Africa.
 
Old 01-16-2012, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
5,515 posts, read 17,672,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post

As I told you 20 times, the Center of Havana and Old Havana are not more representative of Cuba than any black ghetto in the US. The city was overwhelmingly white in 1959, but the white population left and that part of the city was occupied by blacks from the East (Palestinians).



I can show you nice areas of Havana and you won't see any black or mulatto other than maids. Not different from any southern American city.


No, they are not representative of Havana since they are illegal immigrants and most are lumpen, confidents, criminals. They are typical of the penal population of Cuba.
Whites do not represent Cuba. Cuba was a mixed race nation. Those whites are superficial and definitely do not represent the average Cuban. Especially the reason they were allowed to emigrate to Cuba in the first place. Mullatoes and blacks have been in Cuba forever. Why are you making it seem like seeing black people in Cuba is a recent occurence? You can't think that all the blacks in Cuba are Haitians fresh of the boat.

Can I discount all the Haitians and Haitian descendants in the DR? It would make us way whiter.

Nice stereotyping. Now blacks are criminals? Every single one of them? Cool. I did know that. Now, tell me, since when does committing a crime disqualify you from being "representative"? I guess whites who commit crimes (don't tell me there are no white criminals in Cuba) shouldn't count either.

Why should the whiter areas of Cuba count, while the capital city, which should hold more weight, be discounted? Those whites where not always there. Your making Cuba seem like it was Finland throughout it's history, a separate, isolated, white nation which consisted of no blacks. All of a sudden, blacks are migrating to Finland (Cuba to you), and they don't count. Haha. Cuba has always been a black nation.

Quote:
No, Dominicans and PR do not bear any resemblance whatsoever. Even in case the belong to the same race, they are entirely different.
.
Yes, plenty actually. Cibaenos (North central Dominicans) with most Puerto Ricans and the rest of the country with the San Juan metro area, especially Loaiza, Carolina, Trujillo etc

Same with Cubans and Dominican, Puerto Ricans.

You should really see some photos, or visit, said countries. You seem lack some knowledge on Caribbean phenotypes.

I am not saying those 3 countries are exactly the same. What I am saying is that segment of the populations overlap. This is indisputable. Same can be
said with Cuba and Brazil.
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