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Old 03-10-2012, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey08057 View Post
Thanks.

During the Duvalier murderous regime, Haiti was the ninth largest assembler of U.S. goods in the world where Haitians were paid near-starvation wages.

That is so sad. I once met a supporter of Duvalier who seemed to be on drugs and very dangerous.

Those poor tortured people. They are an inexpensive source of labor for many industries and I suppose it suits those companies to keep a bad economy because it keeps labor costs low. That is probably why Santo Domingo is not in the same boat, because they can insist on higher wages.

Thank you very much for this article.

Last edited by goldengrain; 03-10-2012 at 12:18 PM..

 
Old 03-10-2012, 11:55 AM
 
Location: pennsauken
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My Pleasure.
 
Old 03-10-2012, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Lake Oswego, Manhattan, Aspen
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Haiti had a bloody revolution. Then, things got BAD. Let's see what I can remember.... There were French Aristos who founded the colony. They imported whiter people than themselves as "indentured servants", who quickly "died of exertion" in the heat (they were slaves in all but name). Then, the landowners imported Africans, who were not considered very good laborers, but who at least did not "die of exertion" in the unendurable tropical heat of the island. The local Indians were pretty-much driven to extinction.

The Landowners still kept purchasing "indentured servants" on the auction blocks of Europe (read about The Highland Clearances...a chapter in British History about which it was forbidden to write at the time), with the intent of working the Whites to death (these blond people were seen by the Raven-haired Elites as potential competition, and thus dangerous). But the white slave women were bred to the African men, in the hopes of producing a slave class with enough sense and self-control to follow orders...but one which was still heat-resistant. And the overseers and landowners had African mistresses, along with the English, Scottish, and Irish slave women they were doing. The white women would, eventually, be sent to the fields to die of heat exhaustion. But the African women were, of course, producing saleable slave babies (high-priced ones, perfect as house servants and overseers).

So, there was a whole class of part-African people in Haiti. Same in the Dominican Republic. Mulattoes...Quadroons...Octaroons...lighter ones who passed-as-white.

Well, Haiti had a revolution/slave revolt, led by the light-skinned mixed group. All the whites and pseudo-whites who could not escape were brutally murdered...you know...heads carried around on poles...the typical gruesome sort of thing...(New Orleans got lots of the refugees, including the infamous Madame LaLaurie, on the 'Most Evil People who Ever Lived' shortlist, who was driven quite insane, as a child, by witnessing the torture murders of other whites during the revolt).

Anyway, as usually happens during 'revolutions', the higher-IQ people (in this case, the nearly-white group) who engineered the revolt were then slaughtered by everybody else. Then, nobody who looked even kinda white was allowed to live. So, for the last two centuries, Haiti has basically been a Sub-Saharan African nation...except it's in the Caribbean.

There is only one nice place there: a relatively wealthy enclave up-the-hill from Port au Prince. Basically, all the aid money lavished on Haiti ends up going to the inhabitants of the mansions there (or to their relatives living like princes in Miami and Paris). Various 'agencies' estimate the number of child slaves (Restavec Slaves) in Haiti today (you sell your kid to another family to use as a slave) is around 300,000 TODAY.

In what is now the Dominican Republic, the white people did not get murdered as much. Nor did many of the part-white ones. That left 'passing-for-white' folk like the nation's greatest achiever, Porfirio Rubirosa, the top Gigolo of all time. Descriptions of his primary 'qualification' sound like descriptions of those on the gorgeous part-Algonquin men of Quebec (and some Quebecois-descended Cajuns, like my Husband). So, I'm assuming that there is some 'Indigenous Tribes' DNA in the Dominican mix, to make their population distinct. Gay & Swinger friends tell me that quite a few Dominican men are 'made like' Rubirosa. So, I'm guessing Rubirosa was atypical only in that he was able to get off the island and into High Society (his family was wealthy and prominent). Too, the Dominican Republic has considerable Spanish heritage, which sets it apart from Haiti.

So, basically, you have this sweltering island with a line drawn across it. On one side is "Not exactly great". On the other side is "As bad as it gets". The "Not exactly great" side is trying like heck to keep things from getting any worse. They can look across the border to see exactly how much worse things could get. Haiti: Chavez's Troops Raping in Tent City - YouTube. From what do-gooder friends involved in Temple and Church relief organizations tell me, this sort of scene is pretty-much 24/7 in that delightful land. Earthquakes and Venezuelan troops are not particularly needed for making things 'special'.

None of this is what you can write in a paper. If it were me, I'd write about what a happy and wonderful place Haiti is, now that "The Invisible Weight of Whiteness" has been lifted from it, and what evil racists the Dominicans are, to be keeping the wonderful, happy, helpful and wise Haitians from coming over and enriching them with Diversity. The Dominicans are whiter than the Haitians, which makes them automatically evil, on the relativity scale of the Reigning Orthodoxy. This is how the Professors in our Universities see things.

This is how to talk and think, if you want to get ahead in academia or government work: "The Invisible Weight of Whiteness: The Racial Grammar of Everyday Life in Contemporary America" - YouTube

This is what Doris Duke and Barbara Hutton were getting (but not nearly enough, considering what they were paying...the man was a horrible tease to poor little rich girls) PROMO PORFIRIO RUBIROSA QUE NOCHE - YouTube. Honestly, though, as disgusting as men used to look, back then (the Cigarettes, the booze, the sugar-laden food, the greasy hair, the flabby bodies, the ugly undershirts, the trousers up to their navels making them look as bulbous as women), Rubirosa was exceptionally hot, even with his clothes on. soy hombre.wmv - YouTube. If he looks like the 'passing-for-white' elites in New Orleans, remember that many of their ancestors came from the same island as did he.

Last edited by GrandviewGloria; 03-10-2012 at 02:26 PM..
 
Old 03-16-2012, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
5,515 posts, read 17,683,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey08057 View Post
The problem is that they don't see themselves as the same. The Dominicans have hatred towards their African roots and they look down on the Haitians.
It is very obvious with this statement that you no little to nothing about the Dominican. You feed off the negative press given to us Dominicans by persons of Afro-centrist ideologies. If we have so much hatred towards our African, then why is our music majority African? Why do use words like "mi negro" o "morena" as terms of endearment? Why do we have a statue of Lemba, a courageous slave who fought against his oppressors in the capital city of Santo Domingo? Why are you not saying nothing about Cuba, Brazil, and Puerto Rico? They actually "whitened" their population by giving visas out to thousand upon thousands of Europeans, and in Puerto Rico's case, sterilizing black and mulatto women as to not reproduce any more? You should educate yourself a little bit, or maybe travel to the country. I can't fathom a country with such a high mulatto percentage hating anything black. If that where the case, we wouldn't have had mulattos in the first place. Our whites would have been pure whites and our blacks pure blacks, sort of like Pre Castro Cuba.

We look down on Haitians because they on multiple occasions invaded us, killed many of our people (whites and mulattos), burned down our cities, tried to eliminate our culture (wanted us to be french speaking), and enslaved us by imposing taxes and other harsh penalties. Haiti is a cool sob story nowadays, and everyone feels bad for poor Haiti, but nobody felt bad for us when they where in control.
 
Old 03-16-2012, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
I am not too well versed in history. I looked this up in Wikipedia and did not get enough information.

The island, I believe, is populated by the same people, yet one half is much safer and has a civilization that is thriving compared to the other half. Santo Domingo has a large tourist industry, Haiti does not. Why the huge difference?

I know there is French and Spanish influence, the French having the Haitian side.
OP, we are definitely not the same people. The majority of DR is mulatto. We also have a decent number of griffes (75%+ African) as well as a decent number of pred Euro people (70%+ European). Basically, we are a mixed bag. Haiti on the other hand, is majority Black, consisting of those who are basically Sub Saharan (95% + African) and griffes. With a few mulattos and even fewer whites. This is the result of France bringing in 500,000 slaves in a very small area, with a disproportionate amount of French men, who numbered maybe 25,000. The few whites then left due to the Haitian revolution because the freed slaves where killing off all the whites, who fled into Cuba, DR, and PR. So that is why you have many unmixed Haitians today. The DR was more balanced. If I recall, about 50,000 slaves, 30,000 whites, and about 40,000 mulattos (something like that) in a much bigger area. We had a cattle farming economy, which was very different from Haiti's slave plantation one (think US South). In the DR, whites, blacks, and mulattos all got along fine and worked together. This is why we Dominicans are all mixed. Mixing was encouraged. In contrast to Haiti, where slavery was harsher and more violent, the plantation economy would never allow such mixing. In Haiti, White men viewed the slaves as non-human, not the case in the DR.

To be fair to Haiti, bringing in 500,000 Africans (from different tribes) in such a small area created a violent and unstable culture. The land was deforested as the Slaves where forced to milk the land for everything it had, until there was nothing left. Also, Haiti has a more dessert like climate with little precipitation which is not ideal. The DR receives much more precipitation which is the reason it has many more rain forests and greenery. Not to mention the fact that Haiti was punished for it's slave revolution by the French and Americans in the form of not recognizing Haiti as an independent country and forcing them to pay reparations to the french. This crippled Haiti and it's corrupt leaders throughout it's history made matters worse.

BTW, to the dude who said most Dominicans in the countryside are black, how very wrong you are my friend. The northern countryside is the whitest part of DR, bar none. The countrysides of Santiago, La Vega, Moca, Salcedo, Valverde, and Santiago Rodriguez are mayority pred European, ranging from straight Spanish to even Nordic lookalikes. Everyone nows the cibao countryside is the most european part of the Dominican.

BTW, many black "Dominicans" you see are actually either Haitians or Haitian descendants. An amazingly 20% of the Dominican is composed of Haitian migrants, that's about 2,000,000 people! If the DR was never located next to Haiti, we would be identical to Puerto Rico. We already have more in common with PR and Cuba anyways.
 
Old 03-16-2012, 03:44 PM
 
Location: pennsauken
402 posts, read 622,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMario View Post
It is very obvious with this statement that you no little to nothing about the Dominican. You feed off the negative press given to us Dominicans by persons of Afro-centrist ideologies. If we have so much hatred towards our African, then why is our music majority African? Why do use words like "mi negro" o "morena" as terms of endearment? Why do we have a statue of Lemba, a courageous slave who fought against his oppressors in the capital city of Santo Domingo? Why are you not saying nothing about Cuba, Brazil, and Puerto Rico? They actually "whitened" their population by giving visas out to thousand upon thousands of Europeans, and in Puerto Rico's case, sterilizing black and mulatto women as to not reproduce any more? You should educate yourself a little bit, or maybe travel to the country. I can't fathom a country with such a high mulatto percentage hating anything black. If that where the case, we wouldn't have had mulattos in the first place. Our whites would have been pure whites and our blacks pure blacks, sort of like Pre Castro Cuba.

We look down on Haitians because they on multiple occasions invaded us, killed many of our people (whites and mulattos), burned down our cities, tried to eliminate our culture (wanted us to be french speaking), and enslaved us by imposing taxes and other harsh penalties. Haiti is a cool sob story nowadays, and everyone feels bad for poor Haiti, but nobody felt bad for us when they where in control.


Parsley Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 03-16-2012, 03:47 PM
 
2,076 posts, read 3,079,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMario View Post
BTW, to the dude who said most Dominicans in the countryside are black, how very wrong you are my friend. The northern countryside is the whitest part of DR, bar none. The countrysides of Santiago, La Vega, Moca, Salcedo, Valverde, and Santiago Rodriguez are mayority pred European, ranging from straight Spanish to even Nordic lookalikes. Everyone nows the cibao countryside is the most european part of the Dominican.
Yeah, I never went to the northern countryside so maybe I spoke too generally. I went on the back of a pickup truck from Santo Domingo to the border with Haiti. Everywhere we stopped, everywhere I looked the people were unquestionably black out in the sticks.

And like I said, they all spoke spanish so I don't think they were haitian immigrants but who knows.
 
Old 03-16-2012, 04:22 PM
 
Location: pennsauken
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Black in Latin America E01- Haiti & the Dominican Republic: An Island Divided - YouTube
 
Old 03-17-2012, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey08057 View Post
That was a horrible act by a horrible man, no doubt. Trujillo hated Haitians with a passion. The reasons for his actions where that Haitians had blurred the Dominican border. In those border areas, Haitian money was circulated, and kreyol was spoken freely. On a trip to one of those areas, he was disgusted at the sight of nude Haitians bathing in the river. Not only that, they where also cutting down trees and stealing/killing cattle from Dominican farmers. It was the farmers who wanted something down about the situation. Before the actual massacre, Trujillo actually settled the border with Haiti, which was not really defined beforehand. In that way he knew where he needed to "clean house", and should have served as a warning to Haitians living on the Dominican side. He was within his rights to do so.

Anyway that does not compare to the numerous Haitian invasions in the 1800's.
Remember, Haiti has invaded Santo Domingo on numerous occasions, Santo Domingo has invaded Haiti 0 times.
 
Old 03-17-2012, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
5,515 posts, read 17,683,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
Yeah, I never went to the northern countryside so maybe I spoke too generally. I went on the back of a pickup truck from Santo Domingo to the border with Haiti. Everywhere we stopped, everywhere I looked the people were unquestionably black out in the sticks.

And like I said, they all spoke spanish so I don't think they were haitian immigrants but who knows.
Rule of thumb, if you're near the border with Haiti, chances are very high that Dominicans there are Haitians, or Haitian descendant. Go into the interior of the country to see real Dominicans.
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