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Old 03-17-2012, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
5,515 posts, read 17,679,692 times
Reputation: 2059

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That documentary was already shot down. It is well known that Gates is as big an afro-centrist as there is. He had so many things wrong there. First, one of the guys who he says was a black man (depicted in the statue), was actually mulatto.

Here are my issues with Gates:

-Why did he travel through alot of different parts of Haiti, and yet only went to Santo Domingo in the DR? He already limited himself in this manner because there are many mindsets in the DR. If he would have traveled to the southwest, he would have seen that it is just an extension of Haiti, specifically in terms of the voodoo practiced. If he would have traveled through the north, he would have gone to an area more similar to Puerto Rico than to Haiti (in terms of Phenotype), or more caucasian looking people, thus totally negating his argument. He tries to make us the same, while totally oblivious to the fact that we are totally different cultures, not having to do with skin color.

- How does he question calling Spain our motherland? It is our motherland! We were not colonized from Africa, we don't speak African languages, our official religon is not African, our cities are not African, none of that! In fact, I'd go as far as to say that our Native heritage has formed our society more than our African. So what exactly is African? That 84% of our population is African descendant? Well going by the same token, 89% of it is European descendant. It makes no sense. Everything we are today is mostly because of Spain, and it is where we originated from. Africans weren't even in the island until years later (after the Natives and the Spaniards), when the natives died out.

- He seriously underestimates the Native American influence on our phenotypes. For example im 7%, and Dominicans who have taken the test have come out in a range from 7% to 11%, that I know of . It doesn't even begin to account for the 15%-30% Native American Mtdna that was found in our island, with communities up north up 90% Native Mtdna. There are Dominicans that are straight Amerindian too. He makes it seems as if indio is something pulled out of thin air. He fails to recognize that we are a tri-racial nation, shown by his avoidance of Taino in his documentary. So the fact is that some of the brown skin Dominicans are in fact so because of the taino heritage.

- It's funny how he tried to justify the Haitians slaughter of the French, but then blames Trujillo, and uses a figure (15,000) which is an exxagerated figure. So it's ok to kill people as long as their white? And why did he not mention what Dessalines and co. did to the Spanish side of the Island? Hmmm he conveniently decide not to mention that, but it's ok, I suggest you guys read up on what they did to us.

He really made too much of the statues and imposes America's one drop rule on a country that did not follow it. He makes Haiti seem like some brave and courageous society, and us like the bad guys. You can see it in the way he structured his documentary. If we are so anti-black, why is music like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWGbD...layer_embedded

so celebrated in my country. Why are words like negro and morena used as terms of endearment?

As I knew it, Gates is just a bitter racist black man, an afro-centrist with a warped and limited view on my islands politics.

 
Old 03-17-2012, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
5,515 posts, read 17,679,692 times
Reputation: 2059
Compare the parsely massacre to this:


1) 1801: Toussaint L'Ouveture invades Santo Domingo.

2) 1805: Dessalines (the butcher) invades Santo Domingo.

3) 1822: Boyer invades and then occupies DR.

4) 1822-1844: During the Haitian occupation:
a) Repression of Dominican Catholicism (severed ties to Rome, deported foreign clergy, confiscated Church property, etc. )
b) Repression of Spanish language and culture
c) Forced Dominicans to also pay the fine imposed by France upon Haiti in order to recognize Haiti's independence which bankrupted both sides.

5) 1844: Riviere-Herard invades DR.

6) 1849: Soulouqe invades DR.

7) 1855: Souloque invades DR (again).

8) 1963: Duvaliers police occupy Dominican embassy in Haiti
 
Old 03-17-2012, 12:59 PM
 
Location: pennsauken
402 posts, read 621,911 times
Reputation: 187
I feel you. You made your point. Thanks. Basically everybody has bones in their closet.
 
Old 03-18-2012, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,477,375 times
Reputation: 8777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey08057 View Post
I feel you. You made your point. Thanks. Basically everybody has bones in their closet.
'Skeletons in their closet', maybe?
But I love your way, 'bones in their closet'. Really!
 
Old 03-26-2012, 05:14 AM
 
2 posts, read 2,681 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
One point: rural Dominican Republic is just AS black as Haiti. I think a lot of tourists go to Santo Domingo or those mega resorts in Punta Cana and get this impressions that Dominicans look more like Ricans. Not true.
You couldn't be more wrong, actually. The exact opposite of what you said is true. Punta cana is black as hell compared to most rural parts of DR, same with many coastal resort areas. In fact the whitest looking Dominicans are usually found in the rural interior of the country.


These are some rural Dominicans in the video below. Do you think they look as black as haitians?

 
Old 03-26-2012, 06:50 PM
 
2,076 posts, read 3,078,668 times
Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres87 View Post
You couldn't be more wrong, actually. The exact opposite of what you said is true. Punta cana is black as hell compared to most rural parts of DR, same with many coastal resort areas. In fact the whitest looking Dominicans are usually found in the rural interior of the country.


These are some rural Dominicans in the video below. Do you think they look as black as haitians?

lol man I'm just saying what I saw. Punta cana I never been to. I've been to boca chica, santo domingo and everything west to the border with haiti. You can cherry pick some video but that doesn't change the reality I witnessed.

lol if you guys keep bugging me I'm gonna scan some pics from the trip and post them (many years ago before digital cameras). Then the forum can decide how black or not

Last edited by PosterExtraordinaire; 03-26-2012 at 07:56 PM..
 
Old 03-26-2012, 08:29 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 15 days ago)
 
5,183 posts, read 8,027,180 times
Reputation: 4269
Here is an interesting set of data I found regarding Dominicans that have done the 23andme Autosomal DNA test.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...CL2T54EF#gid=0

So far, pretty much everyone is of mixed ancestry with an average admixtures of 69% European, 25% African, 7% Native American.

People native to some of the areas PosterExtraordinare visited, the admixture averaged as follows:

San Cristobal - 36% European, 56% African, 8% Native American
Bani - 73% European, 23% African, 4% Native American
Bahoruco - 51% European, 41% African, 8% Native American
Barahona - 60% European, 33% African, 7% Native American

It is based on a small sample, but its rather interesting. In all likelihood, most people in that country are of mixed origins.
 
Old 03-26-2012, 08:48 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 15 days ago)
 
5,183 posts, read 8,027,180 times
Reputation: 4269
I also found the following videos of the patron saints festivals and carnivals in various towns PosterExtraordinare might have visited in the southern region of the DR. I figure most of the people would be on the streets during those events and a good representation of how the people look would probably be more accurate.

These are the major towns between Santo Domingo and the Haitian border (as far as I know, some 2 million of the country's 10 million (20%) live in this region):

Barahona


Azua


Bani


San Cristobal


I think those are all of them. Most people seem to be of some sort of mixed, especially when compared to how things look on the Haitian side, where mixture was never widespread or intense. Two examples:

Port-au-Prince


Saint Marc


And why not, a few festivals in some of the towns in the Dominican interior (the part Andres87 mentioned and that PosterExtraordinare has never visited), some 3 million of the 10 million Dominicans live in this region:

La Vega


Santiago


Bonao


Jarabacoa


I think what's happening here is that some people are trying to apply certain categories based on how its done in the U.S.A., not necessarily in much of the world where the mixed are seen as mixed and the black as black, rather than seeing mixed as black as is the case in the U.S.A.

Anyway, I think people can do their own searches on youtube and the rest of the internet, so this is enough. LOL

Also do as I did, visit the whole country and learn where most of the people actually live and go there to make an accurate assessment of what the typical person is like. Go the public events, mingle and most importantly, have fun!

Last edited by AntonioR; 03-26-2012 at 09:13 PM..
 
Old 03-26-2012, 10:05 PM
 
2,076 posts, read 3,078,668 times
Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio84 View Post
I think what's happening here is that some people are trying to apply certain categories based on how its done in the U.S.A., not necessarily in much of the world where the mixed are seen as mixed and the black as black, rather than seeing mixed as black as is the case in the U.S.A.

Anyway, I think people can do their own searches on youtube and the rest of the internet, so this is enough. LOL

Also do as I did, visit the whole country and learn where most of the people actually live and go there to make an accurate assessment of what the typical person is like. Go the public events, mingle and most importantly, have fun!
The people in those videos look from mixed to black I agree.

I got out the album to settle this one. Turns out I don't have a lot of pics of the people Just, waterfalls, sugar cane, I dunno what else. I'm going to blame my girlfriend at the time, I'm pretty sure she was snapping the pics.

Anyways, I provided 3. The pic of the guy in the cockfight is how I remember most of the guys in the countryside. There is another pic with me and my gf posing with a bunch of kids, maybe I'll upload it tomorrow when I have time to censor her out (I don't need her showing up on CD bitching me out ) Those kids were about the same color as the guy above. The town below has people walking around. It's hard to make out just how 'black' they are but maybe some of you computer wizards can do magic. Lastly, the last pic was what I meant by countryside. Unfortunately I don't got a pic of those people but they were black, not mixed. Anyways the videos you posted were of towns. We drove through some of them but did not spend a lot of time in them. I remember the markets did remind me of some of the markets in Haiti (for example severed bull head's over the meat market) but these small towns in those videos are not what I meant by countryside more like those shacks in the last picture.

Anyways, I don't know why we are arguing too much. The Dominican Republic is a beautiful country and I just said what I saw when I was there.




 
Old 03-27-2012, 02:50 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
311 posts, read 742,138 times
Reputation: 438
Interesting little side story about DR. In the 1930s, Trujillo tried to bring in large numbers of German and Austrian Jews (refugees from Hitler) to develop the country. In fact not very many moved to DR, but enough to form a distinct colony did settle there. Here is where they wound up:

Sosúa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How do I know about this? Because I had a Spanish teacher who came from one of those German-Jewish-Dominican families. She lives in New Jersey now.
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