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View Poll Results: Which country?
Brazil 26 37.14%
Cuba 23 32.86%
Colombia 3 4.29%
Venezeula 6 8.57%
Panama 12 17.14%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-30-2013, 12:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Anyway, regarding the topic of the thread, I would say that its a toss up between Venezuela, Panama and Cuba. The first two due to the nature of the people there, they are just not as color struck or race obsessed as others might be, not to say there's no racism or colorism there. In Cuba its mostly due to government initiative after Castro rose to power, but some old habits still exist.
Cuba had Jim Crow like white supremacist segregationist policies well until the time Castro came into power.

 
Old 10-30-2013, 12:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
In Panama the black people are actually ahead of the usual mixed race Latino Panamanian. I noticed it in Panama and I asked a couple of black guys why. I was told that there was two main reasons for it. Most of the black people came to Panama as workers on the canal when it was being built. They came mostly from Jamacia and spoke English. They had also a desire for education that they had gotten from the English culture in Jamacia. This has persisted to this day and many of them are well educated and speak English and Spanish. This puts them into the middle class.
I spent a couple of days wandering around the most posh areas of Panama city and I saw who the real top of the food chain is. Blue eyed, blond haired folks driving around town in their Rolls, BMW's and other very expensive cars. All of them seemed to be 100% white Euros.
Actually, most black people in Panama are the descendants of the African slaves that came to Panama during the Spanish colonial period. They are referred to as colonial blacks. They are culturally different from the English speaking West Indian immigrants that arrived in the 20th century.

Most blacks numerically and demographically in Panama are the descendants of the slaves brought to Panama during the early colonial times
 
Old 10-30-2013, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Brasilia
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Despite economic diferences I still believe that Brazil is more equal than other countries. Tiger Beer is right in most points, but Brazilian authorities have done much to change the economic injustice - for exemple, Joaquim Barbosa, Brazilian Sumpre Court judge is Afro-Brazilian. But still Brazil has much to do to give the Afro Brazilian the same ''economic right'' of white population
 
Old 11-01-2013, 04:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Being an American who lived in Brazil, and later explored Spanish-speaking South America as well...it is very very different.

Brazil: Friendships and socially and everything else...everyone mixes with everyone. You don't see a group of 5 white guys at one table, and 5 black guys at another table, like is common in the US, where they aren't intermixed socially so much.

However, WORK WORLD. In the US, I've always seen African-Americans at EVERY LEVEL...tons of bosses, just everything. When I was teaching in Brazil, regularly I only saw light-skinned Brazilians of european-descent with most of the office jobs. Almost never saw a black brazilian in an office setting - I was teaching English going in and out of corporate offices. I met one light-skinned black guy, who was so pale but with black features. He use to thank God all the time his skin was so light, as he said he'd never had got that job. He wasn't complaining about it, just being thankful about it all the time.

In other words, in the workworld, things seem very segregated with the better jobs going to european-descent. However, socially, a completely different world. Everyone hangs out with everyone else, without such division of friendships on race.

In short, I don't think anywhere in South America, there is much 'equality' on a structural level. But socially, people don't avoid anyone else because of skin color.

And this is the essence of how non black Brazilians and non Brazilian blacks differ when it come sto the role of race in Brazil.

Yes it is true that social segregation is almost non existent in Brazil. But we think that the almost total absence from more upper middle class occupations of blacks/dark mulatos in Brazil is the point that bwe make.


In Cuba there are many blacks in high level occupations, notwithstanding the fact that Cuba is a dictatorship. It should be noted that Cuba is the closest Latin country in its race relations to the USA. The 1953 census for Cuba indicated that around 15% of the doctors were black/mulato. About 25% of the population was in those categories.
 
Old 11-01-2013, 04:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObscureOpulence View Post
Actually that is NOT true about most blacks in Panama. Contrary to popular belief, most blacks came to Panama as slaves during the Spanish colonial period dating back 1501. During the Spanksh colonial era, the number of freed and escaped slaves as well as enslaved blacks and Africans swelled to huge numbers.

There were English speaking West Indian blacks that came to Panama and of course that has a complex role and dynamic in Panamanian society. However West Indian descent blacks don't outnumber Spanish speaking Afro colonial blacks in Panama.

What did people tell you about or make of the dimensions and dynamics of colonial blacks in Panama? It's interesting because it's almost as if colonial blacks in Panama have been silenced or swept under the rug.

I have been told by Panamanian West Indian blacks that they are better off than the blacks who they called colonial blacks. And in this case it didnt mean "arrived during the colonial era", but "possessing a colonial mindset" because they were accused of being self hating blacks. Indeed much of the advocacy for black improvement seems to be led by those with English last names.

I will take this as a view held by some Panamanian West Indians and not as a fact. I have heard that Colon is a serious mess and that Panama is a tough place for any one of the varieties of blacks who live there as a small group of light skinned people dominate the upper levels and that light skinned mestizos are given preference even over the black Panamanian West Indians for mid level jobs, especially in their thriving corporate sector. And that Panamanian West Indians will agitate over this, well Afrocolonials will accept it as a fact of life.

I will be interested in hearing what those who know more about Panama have to say about this.
 
Old 11-01-2013, 04:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelismaticEchoes View Post

Most blacks numerically and demographically in Panama are the descendants of the slaves brought to Panama during the early colonial times

Yet every description of Panama cites the West Indian descended population (most of Bajan descent). They are clearly more vocal than colonial blacks, whether or not they are more numerous.

In any case generations after that immigration ended its probably hard to completely separate the two groups as both will be Spanish dominant, and maybe intermarried.
 
Old 11-01-2013, 04:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelismaticEchoes View Post
Cuba had Jim Crow like white supremacist segregationist policies well until the time Castro came into power.

Despite that it had a thriving black and mulato middle class, even if most were poor. Dont know if that would be true elsewhere in Latin Am, except for the DR where upwards of 80% of the population fall into those categories.

Maybe its this hostility which mobilized them to get a grpup identity that led to struggles for improvement.
 
Old 11-01-2013, 04:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antma robel View Post
Despite economic diferences I still believe that Brazil is more equal than other countries. Tiger Beer is right in most points, but Brazilian authorities have done much to change the economic injustice - for exemple, Joaquim Barbosa, Brazilian Sumpre Court judge is Afro-Brazilian. But still Brazil has much to do to give the Afro Brazilian the same ''economic right'' of white population

Thurgood Marshall was on the Supreme Court in the 60s, but clearly the USA was deeply racist at that time.
 
Old 11-01-2013, 09:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
And this is the essence of how non black Brazilians and non Brazilian blacks differ when it come sto the role of race in Brazil.

Yes it is true that social segregation is almost non existent in Brazil. But we think that the almost total absence from more upper middle class occupations of blacks/dark mulatos in Brazil is the point that bwe make.


In Cuba there are many blacks in high level occupations, notwithstanding the fact that Cuba is a dictatorship. It should be noted that Cuba is the closest Latin country in its race relations to the USA. The 1953 census for Cuba indicated that around 15% of the doctors were black/mulato. About 25% of the population was in those categories.
Cuba had Jim Crow like segregation and government supported racism and white supremacy well until the 1970s. Cuba was on the brink of a Cuban Civil Rights Movement for blacks and mulattoes and people of color in Cuba when the Cuban Revolution occurred in 1959 and the 1960s
 
Old 11-01-2013, 09:31 PM
 
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Honestly, who cares? Only does America look at race so crucially. If you want to know, go there yourself and figure it out.

P.S. Latin America is more than the countries that you listed.
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