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Old 06-06-2014, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe'sTavern View Post
Wouldn't asian be a cultural designation as well, instead of race?
No, because Asia is a HUGE continent.

All Spanish-speakers in Latin America have some cultural connection.

But Chinese, Japanese, Nepalis, Indians, Cambodians, Filipinos, Afghans, etc.......really don't.

 
Old 06-06-2014, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I think that's just being way too generous. 20-30% maybe among the Cubans and Chicanos, but not anyone else. By white, I mean Andy Garcia (Cuban) and Robert Rodriguez (Chicaco), or Alejandro García Padilla (Puerto Rico's governor), not Selena Gomez, etc. On another note, one of my friends before he moved away is a Chicano (his ancestors were Spanish colonial settlers in New Mexico), and he looked like an Anglo
FWIW there are people that look "less white" than Selena Gomez who consider themselves White and nobody bats an eye. Maybe the best thing that would come out of all this crap is that we as a country realize how silly the construct of race is. It is by no means scientific.
 
Old 06-06-2014, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I think that's just being way too generous. 20-30% maybe among the Cubans and Chicanos, but not anyone else. By white, I mean Andy Garcia (Cuban) and Robert Rodriguez (Chicaco), or Alejandro García Padilla (Puerto Rico's governor), not Selena Gomez, etc. On another note, one of my friends before he moved away is a Chicano (his ancestors were Spanish colonial settlers in New Mexico), and he looked like an Anglo

Yes, I might have been generous with that 20-30 percent. I'd say that about 40-50% of Cubans in the US are white (as opposed to about 25-30%) in Cuba and that maybe 15-20% of Mexican Americans are white. Counting that whites are a minority among Puerto Ricans, Central and South Americans, that may be the case.
 
Old 06-06-2014, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NooYowkur81 View Post
Don't recall but I could have sworn there was a spot where if you wanted to you could specify what country your descend from. Maybe only for Hispanics.
It's not just for Hispanics. Anyone can specify one or more countries.
 
Old 06-06-2014, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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People can call themselves what they want. Still, it would be interesting to have set genetic definitions of race for comparison's sake. Say define someone who is "White," "Black," "East Asian," etc as anyone having more than 75% ancestry from a single racial group, and calling everyone else mixed-race.
 
Old 06-06-2014, 08:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
People can call themselves what they want. Still, it would be interesting to have set genetic definitions of race for comparison's sake. Say define someone who is "White," "Black," "East Asian," etc as anyone having more than 75% ancestry from a single racial group, and calling everyone else mixed-race.
In the US, I've noticed people are really obsessed with trying to use percentages to define themselves. Then they follow it up with a stereotype: I'm 32.86424% Irish and I love to drink!

As NooYowkur81 just stated and I mentioned earlier in this thread, race has no scientific basis. It's primary historical purpose was to establish social hierarchies for the sake of white supremacy and colonial subjugation.

From my point of view, if an Korean living in Mexico for five years wants to identify as Korean-Mexican or Mexican, then that is that persons prerogative. And I do happen to think that using ethnicity or nationality as a way of defining oneself makes much more sense than the construct of race.
 
Old 06-06-2014, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octa View Post
In the US, I've noticed people are really obsessed with trying to use percentages to define themselves. Then they follow it up with a stereotype: I'm 32.86424% Irish and I love to drink!

As NooYowkur81 just stated and I mentioned earlier in this thread, race has no scientific basis. It's primary historical purpose was to establish social hierarchies for the sake of white supremacy and colonial subjugation.

From my point of view, if an Korean living in Mexico for five years wants to identify as Korean-Mexican or Mexican, then that is that persons prerogative. And I do happen to think that using ethnicity or nationality as a way of defining oneself makes much more sense than the construct of race.
Race as used by geneticists is different than how it is used by society in a popular sense. But if race had no scientific basis, you wouldn't be able to do the genetic admixture tests and determine what percentage of your ancestors came from various continents.

That said, ethnic background as defined by genealogy can be significantly different than your actual genetic ancestry due to genetic recombination. Essentially, while you must be exactly 50% each of your parents, you're only approximately 25% of each of your grandparents. Could be more, could be less. And each generation you go back you divide the average ancestry in half, but the range of variation can be even greater. So it's possible if you're genealogically 1/16th Irish and 1/16th Portuguese, but genetically speaking have twice as much Portuguese as Irish ancestry! Unlikely on average, but possible nonetheless.

This is even more clear when you consider say what happens when two mixed-race people have children. Let's say, for example, both were first-generation mixes of Europeans and Africans. They have two kids, one who is very white-looking, and one who is very dark. The white-looking one is almost certainly then way over 50% white, and just happened to inherit more of his genes from his two white grandparents when compared to the darker one.
 
Old 06-06-2014, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Race as used by geneticists is different than how it is
used by society in a popular sense. But if race had no scientific basis, you
wouldn't be able to do the genetic admixture tests and determine what percentage
of your ancestors came from various continents.
To split hairs, the admixture tests quantify which populations your ancestors came from, not which races.

Quote:




That said, ethnic background as defined by genealogy can be significantly
different than your actual genetic ancestry due to genetic recombination.
Essentially, while you must be exactly 50% each of your parents, you're only
approximately 25% of each of your grandparents. Could be more, could be less.
And each generation you go back you divide the average ancestry in half, but the
range of variation can be even greater. So it's possible if you're
genealogically 1/16th Irish and 1/16th Portuguese, but genetically speaking have
twice as much Portuguese as Irish ancestry! Unlikely on average, but possible
nonetheless.
Again, you can't say genetically which portion of Irish or Portuguese a person comes from. You can only determine which markers a person has that occur often in a population. Genetic markers for Ashkenazi Jews, for instance, show up very strongly in any person who has this ancestry, no matter how remote. But a person from Ireland and a person from northern Spain or Galicia could show up as having very similar genetic background because each population came from Celtic origins.


Quote:

This is even more clear when you consider say what happens when two
mixed-race people have children. Let's say, for example, both were
first-generation mixes of Europeans and Africans. They have two kids, one who
is very white-looking, and one who is very dark. The white-looking one is
almost certainly then way over 50% white, and just happened to inherit more of
his genes from his two white grandparents when compared to the darker
one.
Each sibling may have inherited different proportions of genetic material from each grandparent (or set of grandparents), but the differences, no matter the phenotypes of the children, will still be slight. My two children come from parents who are mixed but mostly African, but one was born much lighter than both of us with blond hair and blue eyes, and the other much darker in skin color.
 
Old 06-06-2014, 10:30 AM
Status: "Thinking of the future..." (set 6 days ago)
 
5,271 posts, read 8,059,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
This is even more clear when you consider say what happens when two mixed-race people have children. Let's say, for example, both were first-generation mixes of Europeans and Africans. They have two kids, one who is very white-looking, and one who is very dark. The white-looking one is almost certainly then way over 50% white, and just happened to inherit more of his genes from his two white grandparents when compared to the darker one.
I find that when its two mixed people (not first generation mixed, but several lines down of mixes mixed with more mixes) that have children, things can actually get a little crazy. People that look more one way and then on DNA test they learn that genetically they are more the opposite way is not that uncommon among this group. This is actually quite common among Dominicans, mostly because on average they have as much European as African genes in their mixes (roughly 40/40) with the remaining DNA is mostly Amerindian or Middle Eastern or a combination. In societies where the average person has about equal parts of two major groups that simply keeps recombining generation after generation with no much influx of new foreign people, the end result is a wild combination of features that often times don't fully represents their actual genetic make up, as odd as that may appear.

This doesn't happen as much with Puerto Ricans even though on average Puerto Ricans are made of the same origins as Dominicans. The difference is that the average Puerto Ricans tends to be 60% white / 30% black, and at that type of combination level the white features will predominate (such as most coming out very light skin, to mention one of many features).

This also becomes clear in mestizos groups as well. Chileans tend to be more like Puerto Ricans in the sense that on average they have more white genes than Amerindian (they hardly have any black genes) and Chileans on average do look closer to the white side. Compare that with Hondurans who tend to have mixture combinations similar to Dominicans (except that they are not 40% white/40% black, but rather the black part replaced mostly by Amerindian blood), yet Hondurans on average can look closer to white or closer to Amerindian or right in the middle. More often than not a Honduran may look in a way that gives the wrong impression of his genetic make up (may look more Amerindian when in fact he may be more white or vice versa).
 
Old 06-06-2014, 10:33 AM
 
1,356 posts, read 1,638,850 times
Reputation: 1035
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Race as used by geneticists is different than how it is used by society in a popular sense. But if race had no scientific basis, you wouldn't be able to do the genetic admixture tests and determine what percentage of your ancestors came from various continents.

That said, ethnic background as defined by genealogy can be significantly different than your actual genetic ancestry due to genetic recombination. Essentially, while you must be exactly 50% each of your parents, you're only approximately 25% of each of your grandparents. Could be more, could be less. And each generation you go back you divide the average ancestry in half, but the range of variation can be even greater. So it's possible if you're genealogically 1/16th Irish and 1/16th Portuguese, but genetically speaking have twice as much Portuguese as Irish ancestry! Unlikely on average, but possible nonetheless.

This is even more clear when you consider say what happens when two mixed-race people have children. Let's say, for example, both were first-generation mixes of Europeans and Africans. They have two kids, one who is very white-looking, and one who is very dark. The white-looking one is almost certainly then way over 50% white, and just happened to inherit more of his genes from his two white grandparents when compared to the darker one.
Race has no scientific basis. It's a social construct started being used post-columbian. I or you can go from one society to another and how we are viewed changes depending on that society. across the human genome, racial "differences" make up less than 1% of our differences(I believe it's less than .0003% to be exact). Those differences are physical as I mentioned earlier. We're all the same for the rest of the 99.9 %. Genealogy test exploit that less than 1% variation.
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