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Old 06-10-2014, 12:01 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 18 days ago)
 
5,202 posts, read 8,035,002 times
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Truth:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario
In today's Cuba, Panama, and Dominican Republic, people who descend from Africans are in the majority. There are substantial black minorities in other parts of Central and South America. Whites aren't the majority anywhere save Chile, Argentina and Uruguay, though they too are a substantial population.
That's not fully true. In today's Cuba, Panama, and Dominican Republic people that descend from Africans and Europeans are the majority. People that descend from Africans and people that descend from Europeans are the minority.

In most of Latin America people that descend from Amerindians and Europeans are the majority. Amerindian or European descendants are minority.

There is only one country in Latin America where most of the population descends from Africans and that is Haiti. If we include the rest of the continent, then countries like Jamaica and maybe a few more islands in the English-speaking Caribbean would join the list.
Not quite the truth:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR
In today's Cuba, Panama, and Dominican Republic, people who descend from Africans are in the majority. There are substantial black minorities in other parts of Central and South America. Whites aren't the majority anywhere save Chile, Argentina and Uruguay, though they too are a substantial population.
And these are people who are recognizably black, even in a Latin American context.
Truth:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
If that was the case, then in none of the Latin American countries a mulatto/mixed category would even exist.

Care to explain why so many country's official demographic data does show this segment, especially in countries with large mulatto populations?
Not quite the truth:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Pretty easy. It depends on your definition of mulatto and black........while generally, mixed African/European people are considered mulatto in Latin America, those who are more African than European are usually seen as black as well. That has always been the case in places like Brazil, where recognizably African but technically mixed people such as Gilberto Gil are identified as and self-identify as black. Same thing in Cuba.

Of course, people who look like Gil in, say, the Dominican Republic, would probably run from the "black" designation.
Truth:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Gilberto Gil


Similar looking well known Dominican artist (colloquially known as el negrito de Villa Altagracia):



That type is often known as negro/moreno among Dominicans.

Like I said before, the mulatto category is real both genetically (everywhere) and socially (especially in the countries with large mulatto populations). Case in point, I'm not the one lying in the other posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
?
I didn't say you were intentionally lying, but something that is not true is a...

 
Old 06-10-2014, 12:09 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,934,609 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Some of those are totally off, some so laughable to be the stuff of fantasy. Cuba is not 26% mestizo (European/Amerindian), and definitely not 64%white. More like 30% white, 60% black/mulatto, 9% mestizo, 1% Asian (Chinese and Vietnamese).

The T&T number also is different from other estimates I have seen which have the Indian and African populations, each slightly under 40% with the rest mixed except for a minority of around 2% which are the Chinese, Syrians, whites, etc.

Castro has taken to "disappearing" the black population now that there is more scrutiny about their gross under representation at top levels of government. The latest I guess is replacing mulato with mestizo.

Many people might identify as BOTH mixed or black, and don't care which.
 
Old 06-10-2014, 12:11 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,934,609 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Truth:


Not quite the truth:


Truth:


Not quite the truth:


Truth:



I didn't say you were intentionally lying, but something that is not true is a...

If the group of men in the lower video are called "black" then some one is lying when they claim that only 10% of Dominicans are black. HUGE numbers of Dominicans look like that, which is why many people laugh at the Dominican "flight from blackness".
 
Old 06-10-2014, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,757 posts, read 33,973,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
The T&T number also is different from other estimates I have seen which have the Indian and African populations, each slightly under 40% with the rest mixed except for a minority of around 2% which are the Chinese, Syrians, whites, etc.

Castro has taken to "disappearing" the black population now that there is more scrutiny about their gross under representation at top levels of government. The latest I guess is replacing mulato with mestizo.

Many people might identify as BOTH mixed or black, and don't care which.
Certainly true. But there are very few nonwhite Cubans who are just Amerindian/White (mestizo). Most Cubans who have Amerindian or Asian ancestry also descend from Africans.
 
Old 06-10-2014, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
9,845 posts, read 22,189,745 times
Reputation: 3543
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
Assumptions will always be made based on color. it's more of a question of the impact of such assumptions. In 2014 there is no way many people can honestly say a black person would be denied a job because they are black anymore. 30 years ago thqt was reality but not anymore.
Ehh it depends. In regards to the U.S., some parts of the country are better with this than others.
 
Old 06-10-2014, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
4,370 posts, read 5,146,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
I've seen different.

Not really. I'm just saying, the whole idea of race in America is all flawed. Latinos want to be white, because they think being white is somehow a free pass to prosperity. But in America it doesn't matter. You can be white and poor, have almost no social mobility because the way you think is all messed up. I've met people who have decent money and I've met some poor people. The main differences is more in how they think than how they look. A lot of broke and poor black people thinking is pretty screwed up, which typically isn't the mindset you should have if you're geared towards success. I've similarly have seen the same things with white and latino people who just completely have a flawed way of thinking, which is why they are poor.
 
Old 06-10-2014, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
9,845 posts, read 22,189,745 times
Reputation: 3543
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
My question to you is why does this matter. Especially when such categorizations are arbitrary any way. Brazil puts pardos in a catch all category, while the treatment that individual pardos gets varies on how they look. Those with more visible African ancestry treated worse than those with less. Many indeed getting treated no better than the blacks. The pardos who look like Obama as an example.

And in case you don't know, there is a biracial category in the US census where people can enter as many categories of "races" as they wish, or can just check "other". Obama prefers to check "black" as is his right, because as he says, he doesn't get treated any different from a black person whose Euro ancestry is more distant. In this the USA and Brazil are alike despite all the pretense that it isn't.

Of course the Obamas in the USA can query why blacks are under represented in certain situations. They can't in Brazil, as it runs contrary to the "myth" which Brazil tries to peddle. Should they do so they will be damned as introducing US racism......ditto in Cuba....Colombia......well you get the drift.
Obama has a right to designate his race the way he wants. Personally if it were me I would feel I would be slighting my White mom and my grandparents (who were all heavily involved in raising him) by not acknowledging both sides of my heritage. Like a lot of things during his presidency when it comes to his own race Obama has taken the easier more mainstream route instead of advocating for real change.
 
Old 06-10-2014, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
9,845 posts, read 22,189,745 times
Reputation: 3543
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
Not really. I'm just saying, the whole idea of race in America is all flawed. Latinos want to be white, because they think being white is somehow a free pass to prosperity. But in America it doesn't matter. You can be white and poor, have almost no social mobility because the way you think is all messed up. I've met people who have decent money and I've met some poor people. The main differences is more in how they think than how they look. A lot of broke and poor black people thinking is pretty screwed up, which typically isn't the mindset you should have if you're geared towards success. I've similarly have seen the same things with white and latino people who just completely have a flawed way of thinking, which is why they are poor.
Perhaps moreso among more americanized upwardly mobile Hispanics. But I don't think the average person had that level of sophistication or put that much thought into it when they filled census. Not to mention most Latino immigrants don't even understand how the US views race.
 
Old 06-10-2014, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,757 posts, read 33,973,806 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
Not really. I'm just saying, the whole idea of race
in America is all flawed. Latinos want to be white, because they think being
white is somehow a free pass to prosperity.
This preference for whiteness predates immigration to the U.S. for most Latin Americans and their ancestors, though the established Latino populations in the Southwestern U.S. had this preference as well. It's part of the Eurocentricity of Latin American culture.

Quote:
But in America it doesn't matter. You can be white and poor, have
almost no social mobility because the way you think is all messed
up. I've met people who have decent money and I've met some poor
people. The main differences is more in how they think than how they
look. A lot of broke and poor black people thinking is pretty
screwed up, which typically isn't the mindset you should have if you're geared
towards success. I've similarly have seen the same things with white and
latino people who just completely have a flawed way of thinking, which is why
they are poor.
So if they thought a certain way, they'd be rich? Do you have some evidence of this? Click their heels three times, or something like that? How should poor people, or people who continue to see racial injustices and disparities, think?
 
Old 06-10-2014, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
4,370 posts, read 5,146,302 times
Reputation: 3896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
This preference for whiteness predates immigration to the U.S. for most Latin Americans and their ancestors, though the established Latino populations in the Southwestern U.S. had this preference as well. It's part of the Eurocentricity of Latin American culture.



So if they thought a certain way, they'd be rich? Do you have some evidence of this? Click their heels three times, or something like that? How should poor people, or people who continue to see racial injustices and disparities, think?
How you think is a big reason for failure. How you think determines what you'll do.
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