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Old 06-23-2014, 06:30 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 12 days ago)
 
5,168 posts, read 8,019,848 times
Reputation: 4264

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MassNative2891 View Post
Lol why are trying to debate about Africaness on a thread about white Haitians? Start one about the African Culture in the Caribbean if it suites you.

Culturally the most 'African' nation in the Americas is Brazil and amongst Caribbean peoples it's Afro-Cubans. A few others are known to practice actual African traditions in the Americas. Haitians aren't one of them. It's kind of insulting that you're trying to tell us what our culture is honestly.

Like I said calling a Haitian, African is like calling a American , European. Spin off cultures that are very much unique and their OWN. If Jamaicans or other nationalities are all about African traditions great; we don't really have any.

Also anthropology studies have shown the average Jamaican would be 68% African descent, 92% is just the amount of the population with ANY African blood. I'll PM the link of you want. Ethnically Haitians are the most African descent, definitely not culturally though. There is a difference.
Are you sure about that?

Checking the demographic data in the CIA World Factbook leaves the impression that they do count the mixed people apart from the blacks.

black 92.1%, mixed 6.1%, East Indian 0.8%, other 0.4%, unspecified 0.7% (2011 est.)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/jm.html

This also makes clear that white Jamaicans are a minute minority. They probably make up most of the 'other' category.

I wonder if white Haitians make up a similar percentage as white Jamaicans (numerically there probably are more white Haitians than white Jamaicans because the population base are different with most of Jamaica's population fitting within the metro area of Port-au-Prince alone), considering that the white and mulatto categories are often combined in the statistics.

 
Old 06-23-2014, 06:43 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 12 days ago)
 
5,168 posts, read 8,019,848 times
Reputation: 4264
An upper class fashion show in the exclusive Port-au-Prince suburb of Kenscoff. Most of the audience appears to be white Haitians. The models themselves probably are Haitian too.


Last edited by AntonioR; 06-23-2014 at 06:53 PM..
 
Old 06-23-2014, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Randolph, MA
508 posts, read 641,958 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Are you sure about that?

Checking the demographic data in the CIA World Factbook leaves the impression that they do count the mixed people apart from the blacks.

black 92.1%, mixed 6.1%, East Indian 0.8%, other 0.4%, unspecified 0.7% (2011 est.)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/jm.html

This also makes clear that white Jamaicans are a minute minority. They probably make up most of the 'other' category.

I wonder if white Haitians make up a similar percentage as white Jamaicans (numerically there probably are more white Haitians than white Jamaicans because the population base are different with most of Jamaica's population fitting within the metro area of Port-au-Prince alone), considering that the white and mulatto categories are often combined in the statistics.
The CIA World Factbook is a weird mix of self-reported Census data (U.S., Canada), estimated (France, Egypt,etc.) and in the case of Haiti; lazily put together data. Do you think the undocumented Haitians in Haiti actually fill out any census info; or have counters come by to check? I'd wager no. I could be wrong. All together though, that's just reported data based on the way each nation views itself and it's population.

The mixed in Jamaica is Mulatto,etc. Sean Paul and Samantha J (Jamaican music artist) types. But someone with a Scottish grandfather and Chinese great-grandmother is Black. What I referenced is based off of research found in an anthropological study. I can P.M. the link if you want. You may need to be enrolled or work for an institution to read the full study though.
 
Old 06-23-2014, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Randolph, MA
508 posts, read 641,958 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
An upper class fashion show in the exclusive Port-au-Prince suburb of Kenscoff. Most of the audience appears to be white Haitians. The models themselves probably are Haitian too.

Kenscoff used to be nicer though from what I hear. There's supposed to be a great restaurant there that's been around since the '70s. Petionville, Kenscoff, and Pacot people are known for being socialites and party animals. Not that the rest of PAP doesn't get it going.
 
Old 06-23-2014, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Randolph, MA
508 posts, read 641,958 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Anyway, in what country is the white minority larger as a percentage of the population? Jamaica or Haiti?
Percentage? It has to be Jamaica, I think. Even though the CIA world fact book doesn't list any White ethnic group for Jamaica.
 
Old 06-23-2014, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Randolph, MA
508 posts, read 641,958 times
Reputation: 598
Default Marley discrimination!?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Bob Marley was probably the first truly globally known Jamaican mulatto and he also experienced some anti-mulatto sentiment in Jamaica.
I think that's a classic example of Anglo colonial influence on Jamaican racial views. Haiti does use a Black one drop rule. Bob is considered a Black Icon as far as I knew.

The President of Haiti, Martelly has a similar skin tone to Marley and is considered a Black man through and through.
 
Old 06-24-2014, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY $$$
6,836 posts, read 12,847,487 times
Reputation: 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Never met a Jamaican who wants to look like a Trini. Jamaicans think that they are the best and that Trinidad is a "small" island lucky to have oil.

It is sad that some are embarrassed by the fact that the unique history of Haiti has left them the most African of all Caribbean people. The plantation system ended earlier, and when it ended a sizeable % of the population were African born. Clearly miscegenation with light skinned peoples would have been more limited as many reverted to subsistence peasantry until the last generation or two.

Else where the unequal relationships between light skinned masters and dark skinned "slaves" (up to WWII conditions for the workers were scarcely better than for the slaves) continued well into the 20th century, resulting of course in contacts between these groups, coerced or otherwise.

Apparently this embarrasses some people who seem to wish that Haiti wasn't so African, so desperately grasp at straws to prove so.
While what your saying is true, it is also true that plenty of Jamaicans would embrace their tiny mixed population to a point to compare to places like Trinidad.

In high school a lot of Jamaicans had this ideology even though trinidiadians resemble Guyanese.

I'm still confused at your terminology of Haiti and Africa.
 
Old 06-24-2014, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY $$$
6,836 posts, read 12,847,487 times
Reputation: 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassNative2891 View Post
Lol why are trying to debate about Africaness on a thread about white Haitians? Start one about the African Culture in the Caribbean if it suites you.

Culturally the most 'African' nation in the Americas is Brazil and amongst Caribbean peoples it's Afro-Cubans. A few others are known to practice actual African traditions in the Americas. Haitians aren't one of them. It's kind of insulting that you're trying to tell us what our culture is honestly.

Like I said calling a Haitian, African is like calling a American , European. Spin off cultures that are very much unique and their OWN. If Jamaicans or other nationalities are all about African traditions great; we don't really have any.

Also anthropology studies have shown the average Jamaican would be 68% African descent, 92% is just the amount of the population with ANY African blood. I'll PM the link of you want. Ethnically Haitians are the most African descent, definitely not culturally though. There is a difference.
That's the main problem with our Haitian people brother. Too many outsiders think they know Haiti more then we do.

That's one negative about Haitian people. They allow outsiders to give them info about their own nation. No way. Smh
 
Old 06-24-2014, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY $$$
6,836 posts, read 12,847,487 times
Reputation: 1582
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Perhaps, but there are signs that points towards many Haitians actually seeing Martelly for what he is, especially when they are angry.


Mountains Behind Protests | Haiti Chery

The Haitian people that chanted the anti-mulatto cry:


http://www.dadychery.org/wp-content/...30Sep2012a.jpg


http://www.dadychery.org/wp-content/...30Sep2012b.jpg


Martelly:

http://dfghj7h6esbng.cloudfront.net/.../11/haiti9.jpg

His wife Sophia and son:


http://www.pulsamerica.co.uk/wp-cont...telly-vert.jpg

And Laurent Lamothe, who was also criticized in the anti-mulatto chant:


http://www.haitian-truth.org/wp-cont...aa745cdcb6.jpg
Those protesters are the main problems with Haiti, not the mulattoes.

Haters.
 
Old 06-29-2014, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Randolph, MA
508 posts, read 641,958 times
Reputation: 598
Default Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycjowww View Post
Those protesters are the main problems with Haiti, not the mulattoes.

Haters.
......It's like they're trying to alienate the Diaspora. Kind of slick of the Martelly Administration to try to give the diaspora a vote. My parents just came back from Haiti and they say Martelly is doing great job! Old problems never die it seems.

Haiti PM says Haitian Diaspora deserves greater political role in homeland | Haitian Caribbean News Network

The educated elite is going to need those votes in the future unless the masses become 'disenchanted' by Aristide and his dream (whatever the hell that is). I've noticed a strong dislike of the 'Lavalas' movement in the US Haitian Diaspora. The only Haitians that support him are rural folks and anti-mulatto people. Speaking with a relative about it yesterday, she doesn't consider herself Mulatto; but I guess Lavalas has really messed up already terrible relations. Still can't get over how racist they're being. Very few of them had a grandfather born in PAP, i'll tell you that. But here they are crowding the city.

This reeks of classism. The old Haitian Middle Class is a very diverse group. So the belief is you're not Black, if you don't look like someone from Okap or straight African? Martelly was a 'Duvalierist' which shows how perceptions have changed within the last 30 years (although Baby Doc was less of a tyrant and married a Mulatto).

"Haitian constitution specifies: All Citizens must be known as “Black” regardless of skin color"

Segments of the population seem to want to make the nation seem as Black as possible. Seems like Divide and Conquer; I don't doubt the Haitian elites are the ones behind this new Black Identity. Mixed in with a bit of historical rural resentment (but they ALWAYS get their people voted into office, Go figure). Every time Haiti starts making some progress, racial/economic/social problems reach a tipping point.
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