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Old 07-17-2014, 05:10 PM
 
Location: NYC
72 posts, read 100,281 times
Reputation: 124

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Hey Caribny,

Have you ever been to the DMV, Post Office, Airport, McDonalds?

In New York at least I would say that 95-98% of the people working there are of color.

So I really don't know WTF you are talking about.

 
Old 07-17-2014, 07:56 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,931,227 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by NemoNYC View Post
Hey Caribny,

Have you ever been to the DMV, Post Office, Airport, McDonalds?

In New York at least I would say that 95-98% of the people working there are of color.

So I really don't know WTF you are talking about.

What's your point? Do you think that white people want to work at these places but are deprived? Who do you think makes the hiring decisions?

I have no idea what you are talking about when you say airport. The bulk of the highest paid positions are held by white males. Maybe they don't want the $10/hour jobs.
 
Old 07-18-2014, 09:55 AM
 
Location: NYC
72 posts, read 100,281 times
Reputation: 124
The president is black. That is progress. Don't you think things are better and keep getting better for all? Most kids don't even think about race. In 50 years none of this will matter. You need to stop being so angry and defensive. Your attitude belongs in the 60s!
 
Old 07-18-2014, 10:36 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,931,227 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by NemoNYC View Post
Most kids don't even think about race. !

Yes especially when we see all of those attempts to lampoon blacks on college campuses.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/25/us...sion.html?_r=0


Indeed the daily racist rants against Obama is proof that the USA isn't as color blind and those who claim it is are just as silly as the Latin Americans who preach the same garbage. Neither want to admit that there is still a problem.
 
Old 07-18-2014, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Buena Park, Orange County, California
1,426 posts, read 1,883,826 times
Reputation: 1493
Quote:
Originally Posted by NemoNYC View Post
The president is black. That is progress. Don't you think things are better and keep getting better for all? Most kids don't even think about race. In 50 years none of this will matter. You need to stop being so angry and defensive. Your attitude belongs in the 60s!
hahaha, just don't go on twitter, youtube or any social media...wouldn't want you to break your hope for the future with all the racist and ignorant things kids (pre-teens and teens from the midwest and south especially) say nowadays

There is still quite a bit of work to be done.

Here is just one example that was on the national spotlight: Public Shaming - Racist Basketball Fans PISSED a Mexican-American Boy Dared to Sing Their National Anthem

That doesn't include all the racist statements that attack the average color folk that aren't considered newsworthy. Also, that was an American kid of Mexican descent...lets not forget that blacks still get the worst of it. Not to mention that with the continual appropriation of black culture, it is apparently very cool to act black, unless you're black of course.

Yeah...America is soooo post-racial.

[BTW, yes, there are many youth that are, thankfully, enlightened enough to see beyond race, but I'm not sure this is the truth for the majority of them.]
 
Old 07-18-2014, 11:23 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,931,227 times
Reputation: 3799
I frequently hear Millennials claim that they don't "care about race", this as they parade around in the 100% white groups (maybe with some Asians thrown in) with a token one or two blacks.

They are raised in a country based on race. They grow up thinking that "whiteness" is the norm against which others will be judged. And they have a preference for hiring people like themselves (whites) just as their parents do, once they have some level of authority.

They think that they are post racial because they voted for Obama, and love Chris Roc, and hip hop. Yes the fictive black who they see on TV. Not the real ones who are with them in the college class rooms!

Not to say that they are as resistant to dealing with others as their parents, and especially their grand parents are. Progress has been made. But MORE progress needs to be made, and this arrogant "we don't think about race" which is their way of shutting down any conversations about race, isn't the way for this to occur.

Not thinking/talking about race doesn't mean that racism doesn't occur. Latin America illustrates this point quite LOUDLY!
 
Old 07-19-2014, 12:45 PM
 
367 posts, read 761,237 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Why don't you accept the fact that in Haiti, and in most parts of the Caribbean, Martelly isn't a mulatto. He is black (and not especially light skinned either.

You scream that we must accept every Latin American with 90% African ancestry as being mixed because of their 10% non African.

So why don't you accept the fact that Martelly is more African than European and within the context of Haiti, isn't a mulatto.

Besides I have met Cubans who are more mixed than Martelly and who self identify as BLACK.

Also if you whiten Cory Booker who can easily pass as white, light eyes and all. Do the same to Martelly and he is an albino.

All of these are social constructs. Respect the fact that in the USA Adam Clayton Powell is white, in the non Hispanic Caribbean he is mulatto, and in Latin America he is white.
You meant in the USA Adam Clayton Powell is Black
 
Old 07-19-2014, 12:54 PM
 
367 posts, read 761,237 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassNative2891 View Post
Although Haitians (as a group) are genetically mostly African; you’ll hear many families citing ancestry from S.D., Jamaica, France, Cuba, and Martinique (examples). To say Haiti is demographically closer to ‘Sub-Saharan’ African countries is asinine. The Haitian definitions of race are very different from the rest of LA.

While the rest of LA was encouraging White immigration, Haiti was receiving free blacks from MANY colonies, territories and nations in the Caribbean and America and losing Mulattes & Whites to Louisiana, Quebec, France, Cuba, DR, etc.

Haiti has a ton of ‘Grimaud’ and ‘Grimel’ who in Africa or any other LA country would be ‘Mulatto’, but they are Black in Haiti. The ‘Mullate’ in Haiti are pretty much Quadroons and pure Caucasians are the only people really considered White. An Arab in Haiti is not considered ‘Blanc’, they’d be considered Arab.

In the North (and East), you’ll find more people with some sort of Afro-Cuban or Dominican ancestry. Outside of that, Northern Haiti is as Black as Ghana. To the South near Jeremie and Dame Marie, is where you’d find a bunch of ‘Grimaud and Grimel’ of French Descent (They won’t let you forget it either). In the middle you have the Ouest Department and P.A.P.

Port Au Prince has Levantine and other Asian minorities scattered throughout the populace. Port-Au-Prince used to be composed mostly of ‘local’ natives whose admixture (Loads of Brun, Grimaud, Blanc, and Arabs) is not like what we see today in the city. PAP was never meant to support the population we see today (used to be a city of 50,000).

Amongst the Haitian diaspora there is a phrase that is usually accompanied with a roll of the eyes “Tout moun sortie Port Au Prince”. This means “Everyone comes from P.A.P”. Haitians from the countryside have displaced the original population of PAP which was lost during several dictatorships and Brain Drains. The government used to even have special birth certificates for people born outside of PAP which indicated that they were “Peyizan” or “Peasant”.

In regards to Africa, the countries that would resemble Haiti demographically would be the nations in South and East Africa. Not in terms of ethnicity (It is well known the Haitian slaves were taken from Benin, Togo, and Ghana) but racial diversity. To a Grimaud Haitian, it’s an insult to say they are not Black. So race is also reported accordingly.

In Haiti there is a saying ‘Neg se Neg’. It literally means ‘Black is Black’. That’s why older Haitians will laugh if you tell them that Latin Americans as a whole; are not black. Especially Dominicans and Puerto Ricans. Haiti was founded by a Black and Mulatto Rebellion (with tinges of Taino) who were oppressed by a White ruling class.
Thank you for this great post. I've known Haitians all my life, being born and raised in Miami-Dade but no one ever broke it down like this for me. I'm of Afro-Colombian descent and plenty of my Afro proud Afro-Colombian brothers and sisters love Haiti and what Haiti did for us, although Bolivar could not keep his promise to the great President Petion of freeing us Africans and abolishing slavery in Gran Colombia. My sister-in-law is Haitian American but has never been there as she was also born and raised in Florida. I hope to go one day though.
 
Old 07-19-2014, 01:14 PM
 
367 posts, read 761,237 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
And that is what I said. And as a result Haiti has more people who are 100% vs. an island like St Kitts where most will be in that 85-90% range.

I can cite Guyana where there are certain Afro Guyanese villages where people are not only 100% African, but might even be mainly of particular ethnic groups. This compared with Georgetown which is more diverse.

In these villages, like Ithaca in West Coast Berbice, originally settlement was by people from particular ethnic African groups (I cant remember which but it might be Congo in the case of Ithaca). There is limited mixture with the nearby East Indians. So the villagers remained "purer" than in other places. There are one or two villages where Igbo was spoken up to the 1950s because the original settlers were Igbo, which encouraged many subsequent arrivals of Igbo background.
I don't see how Haiti has more genetically SSA people than Jamaica. On DNA testing websites such as 23andMe I have not seen the first Haitian come out 100% SSA. They are usually in the high 80s and low 90s. While there has been a Jamaican score 100% SSA and others in the high 90s. Most of rural Jamaica is very SSA, it is just those cities and towns that have the mixed-race. The difference is Black Jamaicans are basically straight up West African while Haiti is not so there's a different look to the people. I don't know why people on this side of the world perceive West African phenotypes as "less Black" than Central African phenotypes due to so called "fine features".
 
Old 07-19-2014, 01:22 PM
 
367 posts, read 761,237 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
As much as people might wish to pretend that the Haitian population is like that of Jamaica as an example it isn't.

There really isn't any reason for people to feel ashamed that Haiti, because of its unique history (because it was the only slave society to have a successful revolt), it has a larger % of its black population being purely African. And because it has retained by far the most African feel within its creolized culture.

It is what it is. The main reason why Jamaica isn't like Haiti is because none of Jamaica's slave revolts succeeded. So the plantation system and the resulting mixing that occurred between the planters and the workers lasted longer.
What!? None of the slave revolts in JA succeeded?! That is ludricous! Go read up on Nanny, Accompong, Cudjoe, and her other brothers that even England had to make a treaty with them. They were a nation inside a nation for the longest.
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