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Old 07-23-2014, 03:51 AM
 
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Americans are Americans, everywhere.

In Spain, Americano, nobody says "estadounidense" except in the press.

In Cuba, "Americano",,,,everybody....in political jargon "yankee imperialista".....and there's the term "Yuma" that refers to any foreigner or cuban from abroad with hard currency.

Never heard "gringo" in those two countries.

When I visit Mexico, they call me "gŁero", "gŁerito".

The Gringo stuff sounds to Spaghetti Western, people might use it to mimmick Spaghetti-Westerns,

 
Old 07-23-2014, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RudyOD View Post
That's the Spanish term for it, not the PC term. If you are speaking Spanish, that would be the appropriate way to say it. As for how we Americans sometime incorrectly translate the English form directly to Spanish (American to americano), and how some South Americans get all offended about it - well, that's a different topic. Nonetheless, using the correct Spanish language term (estadounidense) for someone who is a U.S. national, has nothing to do with being PC...it's just speaking Spanish correctly.
Using Americano is speaking spanish incorrectly?

http://www.wordreference.com/definicion/Americano

Some people don't like it because it implies people from the U.S are the only "Americanos" but it is not incorrect Spanish.
 
Old 07-23-2014, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,149,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NooYowkur81 View Post
"Estadounidense" is the term preferred by the pc types...
I was never called that once during my 10 months in South America. Almost ALWAYS 'Americano'...with the occasional 'Norte Americano'.
 
Old 07-23-2014, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
8,071 posts, read 5,392,429 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
I was never called that once during my 10 months in South America. Almost ALWAYS 'Americano'...with the occasional 'Norte Americano'.
It's dying then, it makes sense. The word "estadounidense" is kind of awkward to pronounce even for Spanish speakers and it sounds a little too formal. I think the best description for PC purposes is Norte Americano or "Soy de Estados Unidos" I would personally use the latter but use whatever you want.

The people who you hear complaining about "South Americans being so PC" are usually people that sound very argumentative. I think many have prejudices against some latinos because they jump in at every opportunity to post negative stereotypes of Latinos or South Americans. Some people just don't like other cultures because they can't deal with the culture shock. Most Latinos are easy going and won't give you a hard time, even if they think "Americano" means from the Americas.
 
Old 07-23-2014, 02:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobreTodo View Post
Haiti IS part of Latin America. French and French Creole are very much so Latin influenced & based. The term Latin America was coined by Napoleon & the French, and Haiti was definitely at the helm of that!

Whether or not the languages spoken in Haiti are Latin based, Haiti's history and culture are very different.

Its history parallels that of the non Hispanic Caribbean, with its plantation based slavery, and the overwhelming dominance of the enslaved population (90%) of the total. Even Cuba and Brazil were never as demographically dominated by slaves, and they had plantation based slaves systems to a much greater degree than any where else in Latin America.

Haiti's revolution seriously transformed that island's culture and identity. I will invite you to debate with Dominicans about how "Latin" they think that Haiti is. That conversation will be very interesting, as teh whole essence in being Dominican, is not being Haitian, and having a culture based on Latin America.

I will submit to you that the average person in Guadeloupe has way more in common with the average person in St Kitts than they do with your typical Mexican. So even Guadeloupe, which is now an integral part of France, cannot be considered a Latin culture.

They speak French in Quebec. Do you suggest that Haitians have the culture as the Quebecois?

Haiti is part of the non Hispanic Caribbean! All one needs to look at is which parts of New York City do Haitians chose to reside. They DONT live with Dominicans and Cubans. THey DO live with Jamaicans, Trinidadians and Guyanese, and are very active participants in the West Indian Day carnival in Brooklyn. Ditto for the minute numbers of immigrants from Guadeloupe and Martinique who live in NYC.
 
Old 07-23-2014, 07:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Whether or not the languages spoken in Haiti are Latin based, Haiti's history and culture are very different.

Its history parallels that of the non Hispanic Caribbean, with its plantation based slavery, and the overwhelming dominance of the enslaved population (90%) of the total. Even Cuba and Brazil were never as demographically dominated by slaves, and they had plantation based slaves systems to a much greater degree than any where else in Latin America.

Haiti's revolution seriously transformed that island's culture and identity. I will invite you to debate with Dominicans about how "Latin" they think that Haiti is. That conversation will be very interesting, as teh whole essence in being Dominican, is not being Haitian, and having a culture based on Latin America.

I will submit to you that the average person in Guadeloupe has way more in common with the average person in St Kitts than they do with your typical Mexican. So even Guadeloupe, which is now an integral part of France, cannot be considered a Latin culture.

They speak French in Quebec. Do you suggest that Haitians have the culture as the Quebecois?

Haiti is part of the non Hispanic Caribbean! All one needs to look at is which parts of New York City do Haitians chose to reside. They DONT live with Dominicans and Cubans. THey DO live with Jamaicans, Trinidadians and Guyanese, and are very active participants in the West Indian Day carnival in Brooklyn. Ditto for the minute numbers of immigrants from Guadeloupe and Martinique who live in NYC.
Your point? Haitians are Latin in terms of the French & French Creole based influence as rootzdread stated already. French & even Spanish cultural influences in Haiti have a strong based imprint, just as in DR vice versa.

And who made Dominicans or certain other groups the arbitrator on who & what is Latin? Please.

Haiti is a Latin American & Caribbean nation altogether simultaneously.
 
Old 07-23-2014, 11:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SobreTodo View Post
Your point? Haitians are Latin in terms of the French & French Creole based influence as rootzdread stated already. .
Are you putting Haitians and Dominicans within the same cultural category, because I have a suspicion that BOTH will have a huge problem with you as I have never gotten the impression that either particular identifies with the other. Detest might be one description suitable in this instance.


Where do Haitians live. In Upper Manhattan and West Bronx with the Dominicans, or in Flatbush, Canarsie and Rosedale with the Jamaicans, Guyanese and Trinidadians? It appears as if even though Haitians don't trust West Indians, they will sooner give us a go than they would Dominicans!

So as an 80% African person who is a monolingual English speaker from a former British colony, am I Anglo Saxon?

Because this is what you suggest if you claim that Haitians are Latin based on language and certain other aspects of their culture.

IMHO we are CREOLES. A people of blended African and European cultural heritages, with Asian heritages visible in certain countries as well. As well as of course the Indigenous, especially in certain islands in the Eastern Caribbean, the Hispanic Caribbean and the mainland Caribbean (Belize, Guyana and Suriname).
 
Old 07-24-2014, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Randolph, MA
508 posts, read 642,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Are you putting Haitians and Dominicans within the same cultural category, because I have a suspicion that BOTH will have a huge problem with you as I have never gotten the impression that either particular identifies with the other. Detest might be one description suitable in this instance.


Where do Haitians live. In Upper Manhattan and West Bronx with the Dominicans, or in Flatbush, Canarsie and Rosedale with the Jamaicans, Guyanese and Trinidadians? It appears as if even though Haitians don't trust West Indians, they will sooner give us a go than they would Dominicans!

So as an 80% African person who is a monolingual English speaker from a former British colony, am I Anglo Saxon?

Because this is what you suggest if you claim that Haitians are Latin based on language and certain other aspects of their culture.

IMHO we are CREOLES. A people of blended African and European cultural heritages, with Asian heritages visible in certain countries as well. As well as of course the Indigenous, especially in certain islands in the Eastern Caribbean, the Hispanic Caribbean and the mainland Caribbean (Belize, Guyana and Suriname).
While Haitians do tend to live near or within the SAME neighborhoods as other Black Caribbean folks, we don't usually live far from Platanos either. If anything, you can always find Jamaicans, Dominicans and Haitians somewhat near each other. At least that's how it is in the Boston Metro. Can't speak for NYC but I do have family in Washington Heights and the Bronx, as well.

Dominicans are different from the rest of the Black Caribbean because they want to be. Nothing more, nothing less. David Oriz was front and center during the Earthquake and as much as I won't admit it in front of my Dominican friends, they held us down in solidarity. I don't care about the immigration issue. My grandfather married into a Mirebalais (Plateau Central; place that Dominicans claim was stolen) family after my Granny died and i'll tell ya, us Haitians probably did flood that region and demand it after.

Mirebalais isn't in the South of Haiti and has way more Grimel and Mulattos than anywhere else in the North (Okap, Limbe, even St.Marc). So the DR influence is evident.

You can find more similarities than dissimilarities with Dominicans and Haitians. One group embraced Black Power to the extreme (look how far that brought us) and the other is all about denying how Afro they really are and embraced White Supremacy Ideals.

That all being said. I've never had a Dominican deny our cultural connection. Jamaicans? Until C-D, I've never noticed any kind of cultural or Black solidarity besides at festivals...and even then....Jamaicans don't really share much with us besides race. Creole borrows/borrowed a lot from Dominican Spanish. In America though, many Haitians latch onto proper "West Indian" culture. So we seem more connected.

Not to say that Haitians and Jamaicans don't get along. I have loads of Jamaican friends. Like I'd say amongst my "Black" friends about 40% of them have at least one parent born in Jamaica.

But on the ground on Hispaniola? My family in Haiti only goes to Cuba and DR for vactions if they're staying in the Islands. Mostly DR.

To them, Jamaica is just another place in the Americas. DR? That's the place to be. Which is natural, with the whole shared island thing.

BOTH Dominicans and Haitians would be overjoyed if the other completely got their stuff together (yes, Haitians still talk smack about DR; and vice-versa). For different reasons, but there is a common hope for the ascendancy of Hispaniola. As with everywhere else in the Americas, race is a huge barrier.
 
Old 07-24-2014, 08:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MassNative2891 View Post
That all being said. I've never had a Dominican deny our cultural connection. barrier.

The Dominicans are being nice to you because they are your friends. Behind your back there are still myths of Haitians eating children as part of your voodoo ceremonies and other ignorance. Their whole self identity is based around not being Haitian. The rest of the Caribbean doesn't care about either Haitians or Dominicans. The biggest insult one can hurl at a Dominican is to mention that there are Haitian influences in Dominican culture. Which indeed there are.

This isn't about who likes Haitians, because being the poorest and most troubled nation in the Americas, to be frank with you nobody does.

This is about who Haitians chose to live amongst.

Miami, a huge Latin city. Where do Haitians live. With other non Hispanic blacks.

There is a large West Indian population in NYC as there is a large Haitians and a large Dominican population.

Dominicans who live in Brooklyn, are in Williamsburg, Bushwick, and Sunset Park. Not areas where Haitians concentrate.

If Haitians are so comfortable with Dominicans why aren't they living in neighborhoods with dense Dominican populations? Why do the Haitians participate in the West Indian Day carnival, and not in the Hispanic Columbus Day parade (the Sunday before the actual holiday, aimed at uniting all Hispanics)?

Why do they live in neighborhoods with dense Trinidadian, Guyanese and Jamaican populations? In Brooklyn AND in Queens. The Haitian population in the Bronx is small, and much of what exists there is because rents in Brooklyn are now exploding.

When asked about why their animosity to Haitians Dominicans cite the Haitian occupation. Yes the MULATTO Haitian occupation, because Boyer was an ELITE mulatto, even when Haiti was called still a French colony. Educated in France and all of that. Yet Dominicans have a whole mythology based on MULATTO Haitians brutality! No it wasn't a black President who invaded DR. It was a MULATTO Haitians president!
 
Old 07-24-2014, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Randolph, MA
508 posts, read 642,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
The Dominicans are being nice to you because they are your friends. Behind your back there are still myths of Haitians eating children as part of your voodoo ceremonies and other ignorance. Their whole self identity is based around not being Haitian. The rest of the Caribbean doesn't care about either Haitians or Dominicans. The biggest insult one can hurl at a Dominican is to mention that there are Haitian influences in Dominican culture. Which indeed there are.

This isn't about who likes Haitians, because being the poorest and most troubled nation in the Americas, to be frank with you nobody does.

This is about who Haitians chose to live amongst.

Miami, a huge Latin city. Where do Haitians live. With other non Hispanic blacks.

There is a large West Indian population in NYC as there is a large Haitians and a large Dominican population.

Dominicans who live in Brooklyn, are in Williamsburg, Bushwick, and Sunset Park. Not areas where Haitians concentrate.

If Haitians are so comfortable with Dominicans why aren't they living in neighborhoods with dense Dominican populations? Why do the Haitians participate in the West Indian Day carnival, and not in the Hispanic Columbus Day parade (the Sunday before the actual holiday, aimed at uniting all Hispanics)?

Why do they live in neighborhoods with dense Trinidadian, Guyanese and Jamaican populations? In Brooklyn AND in Queens. The Haitian population in the Bronx is small, and much of what exists there is because rents in Brooklyn are now exploding.

When asked about why their animosity to Haitians Dominicans cite the Haitian occupation. Yes the MULATTO Haitian occupation, because Boyer was an ELITE mulatto, even when Haiti was called still a French colony. Educated in France and all of that. Yet Dominicans have a whole mythology based on MULATTO Haitians brutality! No it wasn't a black President who invaded DR. It was a MULATTO Haitians president!
No one likes Haitians. That's all well. But that's a big reason why Haitians also don't put much stock into "Afro-unity" and West Indian and all that. As time goes on, Blacks in the Americas forget what Haiti did for the world and why it is the way it is now as a nation. Haitians live amongst other Black Caribbean people in few places outside the East Coast U.S. Haitians don't go to London or other places in the U.K. They go to Paris and Quebec. Toronto has a lot of Jamaicans but Montreal is where Haitians go in Canada. But get this, Montreal has a growing Dominican population too. I live in Mass and Domincans are the largest immigrant group in Mass but in Boston it's Haitians. Jamaicans can be found but it's because in America blacks just gravitate towards other Blacks.

Like I said, even through this entire thread it's been the West Indian not the Latinos being rude about Haiti. Just Saying. Antonio is talking history (albeit; one with a lot of animosity on both sides) but you've really just talked about a misinformed and 'CIA world fact book' view of Haiti. Proving my point. You have an outsiders perspective. Boyer was in Haiti when the constitution explicitly stated that all HAITIANS were BLACK. That's why DR came up with a new term and identity. We tried Black Power. Our Black 'brothers' treat us worse than anyone to be honest. I'd love to see how Jamaica would react to 1 million Haitians in their nation. We've seen how they treat Gays, Haitians aren't too far above the list for them.

Why does Caricom care so much about The Haitiano-Dominican situation? They're terrified of the people making a run for it and flooding their nations with Spanish-Speaking Haitians. That bit is just my opinion of course.

Last edited by MassNative2891; 07-24-2014 at 10:41 PM..
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