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Old 05-29-2012, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Buenos Aires
33 posts, read 76,714 times
Reputation: 30

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The Islas Malvinas issue is just a wild card that the Government uses when they need to divert the public attention from some scandal.

Having said that, doesn't the fact that they are at 20 metres of the argentinian beachs (or territory) and in argentine waters (i dont know in english the formal word) implies that effectively they do belong to us?

Nor that I care or I wish that to their citizens (who will be much better being independant or a british colony) but I feel that legally they should be argentine territory.

I think that everyone here is mixing in a bag different kind of problems. To sum up:
- the english government wants the islands because of the oil and the strategi position of them
-the islanders dont want to become argentinians because they know (everybody does) that the argentine government is the worst in the world (by far) and that would bring them nothing but sorrow (really if someone wants to offer me a job outside of here- im an accountant)
-the argentine government doesnt want the islands they just want to pretend that as saidbefore to. Even more they just wouldnt know what to do with them.
-argentine people is a mix bag. Some want them to show the world how powerful we are, other doesnt want them, other feel that legaly they belong to us, other think that the sacrifice of the people who go to world (that weren't militaries but kids) can't dissappeared in the shadows, etc. There is no consensus.
-british people i have no idea what they think


Quote:
The thing everyone seems to overlook is that 97%, yes NINETY SEVEN PERCENT of Falkland Islanders are of BRITISH descent and identify with the United Kingdom, the English language, British culture, British everything. They are not Argentinian. The islanders are nearly unanimous in their desire to remain a British overseas territory an Argentina needs to respect that wish and f--k off.
You are overlooking that 97% of americans (united states) are descendants of english and french people and they are not colonies of those countries. The colonial times are over. Do yo realiza that right?
Even more probably 97% of the argentinians are descendants of italian and spanish and that means that those are our roots nothing more nothing less.
And they are britihs NOW but if people from other countries woudld move there (eg:argentina) with time they would adapt their culture and become argentinians.
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:04 PM
 
1,274 posts, read 931,571 times
Reputation: 1412
Considering the islands have been British since before Argentina was officially a country how can they be in Argentine waters? In any case proximity has nothing to do with who has the right to a territory!

And you can't compare the descendants of the US, Argentina etc, to the Falkland Islanders, because they are independent countries - not territories! The Falkland Islanders are British subjects and wish to remain so. Nothing to do with colonialism.
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
311 posts, read 743,571 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndresBsAs View Post
And they are britihs NOW but if people from other countries woudld move there (eg:argentina) with time they would adapt their culture and become argentinians.
Would any Argentines actually want to live in such a cold, isolated and boring place?
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Old 05-29-2012, 08:07 PM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,598,113 times
Reputation: 7605
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndresBsAs View Post
The Islas Malvinas issue is just a wild card that the Government uses when they need to divert the public attention from some scandal.

Having said that, doesn't the fact that they are at 20 metres of the argentinian beachs (or territory) and in argentine waters (i dont know in english the formal word) implies that effectively they do belong to us?

Nor that I care or I wish that to their citizens (who will be much better being independant or a british colony) but I feel that legally they should be argentine territory.
Territorial waters only extend out 12 miles from shore and the Falkland Islands are 290 miles from Argentina.
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Old 05-29-2012, 08:16 PM
 
6,349 posts, read 8,405,211 times
Reputation: 1769
Argentina is not doing well, economically, and this is just an attempt to divert attention away from that.

The people of the Falklands overwhelmingly want to be part of the UK, and I imagine if they are not to be part of the UK they would probably want to be independent.

The UK could easily put the issue to vote and Argentina would lose. If Argentina wants the falklands they need to win over the hearts and minds of the people there. Right now Argentina is mostly pissing them off.
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:38 AM
 
5,663 posts, read 4,380,414 times
Reputation: 5614
Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
Argentina is not doing well, economically, and this is just an attempt to divert attention away from that.

The people of the Falklands overwhelmingly want to be part of the UK, and I imagine if they are not to be part of the UK they would probably want to be independent.

The UK could easily put the issue to vote and Argentina would lose. If Argentina wants the falklands they need to win over the hearts and minds of the people there. Right now Argentina is mostly pissing them off.
It's the old story of using foreign policy to distract from problems at home.. As you say (and as many others have) the people of the Falkland Islands want to remain British (many polls on it so i wont link them, just Google it) and the British Government continuously states that self determination is what matters.

If they want to stay British, then they will. I don't believe any nation could feel that giving up their own nationals to another nation is an acceptable thing to do.
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Old 06-02-2012, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Buenos Aires
33 posts, read 76,714 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbobcat View Post
Considering the islands have been British since before Argentina was officially a country how can they be in Argentine waters? In any case proximity has nothing to do with who has the right to a territory!

And you can't compare the descendants of the US, Argentina etc, to the Falkland Islanders, because they are independent countries - not territories! The Falkland Islanders are British subjects and wish to remain so. Nothing to do with colonialism.
In relation to the first paragraph [/quote]Territorial waters only extend out 12 miles from shore and the Falkland Islands are 290 miles from Argentina.[/quote]

In relation to the second, countries are a man's creation as well as nationalities. I think that my point was valid in that matter.

[/quote]If they want to stay British, then they will. I don't believe any nation could feel that giving up their own nationals to another nation is an acceptable thing to do. [/quote]

I agree with this.

[/quote]Would any Argentines actually want to live in such a cold, isolated and boring place? [/quote]

I don't think so to be honest. I was just saying that i don't like how the issue is being held by both parts.
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:15 AM
 
61 posts, read 56,209 times
Reputation: 26
Default Just the facts

Britain controls the propaganda media, but here are the facts:

Discovery: The most credible discoverer of the islands was a Dutch. There is no proof of the British claim that they were the discoverers.
But the most important thing: Discovery gives no rights over the land. Like the Russians are not claiming half of the moon because they discovered it first.


First settlement: First settlement certainly gives rights, and the first settlers were the French, who started a colony on the West Falkland.
The British claim first settlement because they temporarily, and illegally, invaded French territory, after the French colony was created. But the British not even invaded the Falklands islands themselves, but Saunder Islet, shown here in green color:



So, British claim is null from the start. They pretend to be ignorant over French right over an islet, but also that the islet gives right over the islands.

Treaty of Utrecht: The Utrecht Treaty was signed by France, Spain, and Britain.

It transfers the Falklands islands from France to Spain, and also Gibraltar from Spain to Britain. So, the signature of Britain recognizes that the islands were French, not British, and after it Spanish.
Britain claims Gibraltar on base of that treaty, but do not recognizes the treaty over the Falklands islands.

Nootka Sound Conventions: Another treaty signed by Britain and Spain, where Britain gets West of Canada, in exchange of "staying away from South American colonies, and nearby islands". The Falklands Islands were a Spanish colony, on South America (it belongs to the continental platform), and Saunders islet was a "nearby island".

The Crown of Spain, the one, only, and undisputed owner, put the Falklands Islands under government, -and property-, of Buenos Aires. So that makes Buenos Aires the legal owner of the islands. Britain had no claim at all because never owned the islands to start, and also signed 2 treaties which recognize Spanish sovereignty.

Independence of Argentina Argentina starts his official existence since his Declaration of Independence, at July 9 of 1816, 17 years before the British invasion to the islands.
All territories under Buenos Aires rule were property of Argentina after independence.
It is a lie the British argument of that Argentina was created after the British invasion of 1833. And it is a lie that it would matter at all, because even if Argentina never would had been created, Buenos Aires was the owner, with or without Argentina.

Britain recognized Argentina's independence before invading the islands.


Britain invaded the islands on 1833, expelled Argentines, military occupied it, and a decade later, sent British citizens.



Since the British citizens presence is illegal, they have no property right under international law.
British have no property, and their descendants have no property. They remain foreign invaders, illegal occupiers.

The Right of Self Determination does not apply to illegal, violent foreign invaders, and concedes no property rights.

Also, how hypocrite, Britain ignored the Right of Self Determination of Turks and Caicos islands, who tried to declare independence of Britain on 2009. Britain intervened, jailed the democratically elected authorities, and imposed a de facto government.

Not enough lies and hypocrisy? Britain also was arbiter between Chile and Argentina, on the conflict over the islands of Picton, Nueva and Lennox. Britain used the rule of the judges of the international Court of Justice, and decided that the islands belong to Chile, because the king of Spain assigned the islands to Chile before the independence. Is exactly the same case of the Falklands. The King of Spain assigned them to Buenos Aires, and Britain signature, -made on the 70's, just around the time of the last Falklands war- recognizes that as a valid property right.

Last edited by MotorPsico; 06-02-2012 at 08:47 AM..
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:34 AM
 
1,736 posts, read 1,594,181 times
Reputation: 1130
Heh. If you're going to go back to 1833 to determine who has the rights to land, and which population group has property rights (!), its going to get messy. For starters, all european-descended Argentinians lose their land to the indians. Lots of the same happens in the US and Russia, and China...and why stop in 1833? Certainly we must give the Welsh back the lands lost to the Anglosaxons during the dark ages! And all those peoples who lost their lands to the Romans!

If this is the basis of the Argentinan claim, it belongs in the comedy clubs, not in a serious forum.
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Old 06-02-2012, 11:02 AM
 
546 posts, read 1,222,574 times
Reputation: 380
Andres

I'm very sorry for Argentina. Cristinita will destroy the country or provoke a civil war. It's quite sad to see how a country like Argentina becomes a Chavez's puppet... Quite sad. What will she do if Chavez croaks?

She's a baiter, a populist, she needs evil British, evil Gallegos, evil Americans...and people dance to her rithm because of her handouts that soon will be over..

Really, quite sad.
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