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Old 06-07-2012, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Toronto
3,338 posts, read 5,788,860 times
Reputation: 2365

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Yes Americans seem to look up to wealth more than Australians do, outwardly, although as the Occupy protests revealed, there is a large component who is becoming increasing critical of those who exploit and sustain the capitalist system, and who are not at all happy with what they say as a gross mis-distribution of wealth.

One thing which always interested me is why there wasn't truly an American party that was 'for the working man.' The Democrats sometimes try to appear to be that party, yet they can't seem to engender enough support among poor working class whites because this group tends to be more socially conservative, which is at odds of the Democrat's socially progressive image.
I was actually really surprised when I first looked up how high the minimum wage was in Australia -- like $15/hour or something. The minimum wage there is actually a living wage, which is more than could be said about North America.

Even in Canada, the minimum wage is closer to $10/hr for most provinces, which is probably seen as high by American standards (the US is like $7/hr or something).

But reading the figure for Australia came as a real shock to me -- how do you guys make it so high?

I think in part, Canada's close economic ties to/dependence on the United States as biggest trading partner means that the wage difference between the US and Canada can't be that large to "remain competitive"?
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Old 06-07-2012, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Toronto
3,338 posts, read 5,788,860 times
Reputation: 2365
Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
the democrats are not remotley socilist by european standards

as for the occupy protests , their a vechile for middle class trendy lefties who eventually get tired of not washing and eventually go to work for some multinational , nothing annoys me more than pseudo socilist hipsters
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
True. They talk about creating an American Utopian Marxist system like it's something new. It's better than nothing, but don't confuse lefties trying to prove their have a social conscience as actual change for good; I will believe it when it happens.
I just thought of another thing -- maybe it's not directly comparable, I wonder what could be made of the Montreal students' protests (eg. trashing the education minister's office and all that) as compared to the Occupy Wall street protests, regardless of whether or not you agree with either one's ideas in principle?
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Old 06-07-2012, 08:59 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,344,192 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumbler. View Post
I was actually really surprised when I first looked up how high the minimum wage was in Australia -- like $15/hour or something. The minimum wage there is actually a living wage, which is more than could be said about North America.

Even in Canada, the minimum wage is closer to $10/hr for most provinces, which is probably seen as high by American standards (the US is like $7/hr or something).

But reading the figure for Australia came as a real shock to me -- how do you guys make it so high?

I think in part, Canada's close economic ties to/dependence on the United States as biggest trading partner means that the wage difference between the US and Canada can't be that large to "remain competitive"?
I wonder if anyone's done a comparison of the actual relationship between income and cost of living in the three nations?

The cost of living in urban areas in Australia is definitely higher than the US and Canada, but by how much, I don't know. Real estate is the big one - I think we pay roughly 1.5 to 2 times the average for a comparable American city. In inner city Perth a 1 bedroom apartment typically goes for $400 a week.

Food is another thing...groceries are a bit more expensive here, but eating out has become moreso especially as the value of our dollar has risen. A dinner out at a typical mid-range restaurant will cost you at least $14-30 in most cases, with high end places charging you $30 minimum. When you add drinks, GST, dessert etc it can easily come to $60 per person or more.

Either way, it's not too hard to survive on minimum wage of $18 and live here. You have to be wise and quite thrifty, of course, but it's not like you'll have trouble finding a roof over your head at night or scraping together enough to pay utility bills or food.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Ireland
93 posts, read 133,708 times
Reputation: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by clongirl View Post
No, I disagree. America is a super wealthy and poor country with many people in the middle trying to look like they're super wealthy and not struggling. Full of debt. Americans are consumer driven and want the appearance of having the "good life" to those around them.

In Ireland, (although there was a time during the "Celtic Tiger" where many sure wanted to APPEAR wealthy) the majority of people from my experience are far more subdued and not ostentatious about wealth...almost embarrassed to be noticed for external adornments.

I actually knew a woman that owned her own company and happened to drive a pricy luxury car. A child approached her while I had been speaking to her, because he was "wowed" by her car. She looked/acted completely embarrassed, and told him that it was just a car..has four wheels and moves when the accelerator is pushed. Same as all cars.

Homes and cars are generally made smaller...it's not a "lifestyle choice" so much as a cultural norm. Sure, there's the few large houses spotting the landscape(which are typically owned by real estate speculators from the housing bubble).

I have relatives with kids and are still doing quite alright (i.e. still have good jobs) during the current European troubles...They still own a small semi-detached 1000 sq ft property and drive little teeny tiny cars (by American standards). It's not embarrassing to them like it might be in the US. The image of having money or appearing "well to do" doesn't matter one iota. They, like most of their friends don't place so much emphasis on $ or what you own like it is in the States.

I obviously cannot speak for the culture anywhere else, but it's definitely not prevalent in Ireland at all comparing it to America. From my experiences in traveling around Europe, it's surprisingly similar. They aren't dreaming of material wealth in the same way as Americans do. Again, I am an American and do love it here, but this particular aspect of our culture is a little shameful.
I bought my first home at 22 and bought a brand new car around the same time. Some members of my family were bitter about it and questioning how I was able to afford them. It wasn't just family members. It was also friends, co workers. I agree with you there but I don't agree with that mentality of begrudgery which is one of the many reasons I love America. Why should I be ashamed or embarassed if I have nice things? That's what I dislike about Irish people. They have some serious chips on their shoulder, which is the reason why, if I aquire substantial wealth in the future, I'm getting the hell out of here.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Michigan
4,571 posts, read 7,029,475 times
Reputation: 3599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumbler. View Post
I was actually really surprised when I first looked up how high the minimum wage was in Australia -- like $15/hour or something. The minimum wage there is actually a living wage, which is more than could be said about North America.

Even in Canada, the minimum wage is closer to $10/hr for most provinces, which is probably seen as high by American standards (the US is like $7/hr or something).

But reading the figure for Australia came as a real shock to me -- how do you guys make it so high?

I think in part, Canada's close economic ties to/dependence on the United States as biggest trading partner means that the wage difference between the US and Canada can't be that large to "remain competitive"?
Looks like I need to move to Canada.

U.S. is set nationally at $7.25 but some states are higher and some lower. The highest is Washington state at $9.04. The lowest is in Georgia at $5.15

In our great capitalist country, higher wages are almost as bad as higher taxes on businesses. God forbid that a US corporation can't make $300 billion dollars in one year.

/cynicism
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:22 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,344,192 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
Looks like I need to move to Canada.

U.S. is set nationally at $7.25 but some states are higher and some lower. The highest is Washington state at $9.04. The lowest is in Georgia at $5.15

In our great capitalist country, higher wages are almost as bad as higher taxes on businesses. God forbid that a US corporation can't make $300 billion dollars in one year.

/cynicism
$5 an hour?
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Old 06-08-2012, 12:19 AM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,504 posts, read 17,716,813 times
Reputation: 30786
Minimum wage in Santa Fe, New Mexico is $10.29 an hour. Albuquerque, the next city south (and far more populous) is only $7.50.
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:53 AM
 
Location: Michigan
4,571 posts, read 7,029,475 times
Reputation: 3599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
$5 an hour?
Actually, if I understand this right, in Georgia, if it's a small business with less than several employees, there's no minimum. Also employees who work at restaurants and get tips get paid $2.13 and hour. (tips are usually $3 to $4 per customer depending on how big the meal is)
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:58 AM
 
546 posts, read 1,219,968 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
You can issue? I understand we are talking about stereotypes about Americans (as he sees the rest of the world Americans) or I did not understand?If this is so, then Insolent and arrogant.Met in life, but not all, of course (I think it depends on the upbringing)

You have Americans, the stereotype created by American Media...and the stereotype created by the USSR and the western media they controlled during the cold war...It will take many centuries to wash away the negative propaganda created during the cold war. In fact, most of the awful stereotypes about Americans are created by "progressive" or "liberal" Americans such as Rupert Fatso Moore III.
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:09 AM
 
546 posts, read 1,219,968 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
Minimum wage in Santa Fe, New Mexico is $10.29 an hour. Albuquerque, the next city south (and far more populous) is only $7.50.

In the Alburquerque we have here there's an unemployment rate of 50 or 60 percent, but nobody won't go out of the bar for 5 an hour.
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