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Old 06-16-2012, 01:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
It's interesting that some perceive 'most european' to imply the most european-looking people.

When people refer to a 'city' looking european, they generally refer to the architecture, and bones of the city.

In South America, I often hear of cities like Buenos Aires, Cartagena, or Montevideo as looking European. In the Carribbean, it generally seems to be Havana. As opposed to somewhere like Santo Domingo.

I don't know why I haven't heard of Santo Domingo being 'european-like', but it's generally not something I hear in its regards. Havana seems to be one I hear of most in that kind of way.
I think part of the reason for that is the myth that Cuba is one of the "whiter" islands, but also because Cuba has the least amount of American influence, and has therefore somewhat stopped in comparison to other caribbean countries, where American influence is obvious. That is not to say that Cuba has "stunted" without the US, but its cars for instance, are antique in today's time because no more modern cars were imported from the US.

 
Old 06-16-2012, 06:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutre View Post
LOL! This is one of the numerous statements where some Latin Americans would like to prove (to whomever..) how European or how White they are..

Interesting that we don't see the same amount of effort, not even close, to prove how African this or that city or country in LatAm is.
If there's any, then (places in) Cuba would certainly be among the most African ones in that part of the world.
I am not saying that Havana looks like a European or white city, I am saying that Havana looks very Spanish and had a large Spanish population half a century ago. The city still preserves a strong Spanish presence.

I am also saying that the city and inhabitants do not have much relation with Latin Americans.

In fact, Havana and Cuba were Spanish until 1898.

If you have mental issues for being black or mulatto, I could not care less, visit a shrink. You people remind me of cripples that don't want to be normal, they just want everybody to be a cripple.

I also say that Argel is a very French city, notwithstanding the fact that French were expelled in 1962.
 
Old 06-16-2012, 06:36 AM
 
546 posts, read 1,224,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DginnWonder View Post
I think part of the reason for that is the myth that Cuba is one of the "whiter" islands, but also because Cuba has the least amount of American influence, and has therefore somewhat stopped in comparison to other caribbean countries, where American influence is obvious. That is not to say that Cuba has "stunted" without the US, but its cars for instance, are antique in today's time because no more modern cars were imported from the US.

No, not a myth..and I visit the island frequently. At least 30 percent of the population is entirely white (recent immigration) and around 40 percent are people that would be considered white in Latin America.

Cuba has an enormous American influence, more than any country in Latin America.

Nowdays you find modern cars from Japan and Europe and buses from China, and the reason of the stunted economy is communism.
 
Old 06-16-2012, 06:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DginnWonder View Post
Exactly. Who cares how European they are? They are Carribbean, which means for the most part their cities (the people anyway) are not what you would call "European."

Also something that will surprise most is how dark/mixed/black Cuba is. Many white and Lebanese Cubans up and left to Miami, and the mulattos and blacks stayed, due mostly in part of finances and the general view the Castro has been a great racial equalizer for the country.

For a city to be European, you need it to look European in more than its architecture. Lima, Peru looks very European in architecture. The people? Not so much.

If you want Europe, go to Europe. You won't get it in Cuba, despite the (crumbling) architecture. This eurocentrism diminishes the overall charm of a country, which in Cuba's case has an IMMENSE amount of Native and African influence, which has only increased since the Cuban white flight.
------

Why do you post if you have never been to Cuba?
Cuba is a segregated country, much like Alabama during the 40's. There are areas of Havana that are white and there are areas with many mixtures. Blacks and mulattoes are relegated and don't hold any responsible position. They are 98 percent of jail population.
Plush areas in Havana are "sundown" neighbourhoods.
Havana still has a large white presence in good areas to the west of the city, Santiago (the second city) is mostly black and Holguin (the third city) is entirely white.
The countryside is mostly white.
Blacks and mulattoes live in very concentrated areas in urban places visited by tourists, they deserted the countryside except the province of Guantanamo, Santiago and a few more.
Since there's a poster from Baracoa, in the province of Guantanamo, Baracoa is a mostly white city and I can attest that since I was 3 month ago at el campismo del Yunque.
Cuba must be the only country in the world in which black/mulatto birthrate is falling, the rationing card only covers 6 days.
Blacks have more exposure since they are used in all "folklorical activities" (much like Gypsies in former socialist countries).

Last edited by cojoncillo; 06-16-2012 at 07:06 AM..
 
Old 06-16-2012, 07:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Thank you! Lots of Africa in Cuba.

Are you referring to Palestinians? They are not Africans.
 
Old 06-16-2012, 08:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cojoncillo View Post
------

Why do you post if you have never been to Cuba?
Cuba is a segregated country, much like Alabama during the 40's. There are areas of Havana that are white and there are areas with many mixtures. Blacks and mulattoes are relegated and don't hold any responsible position. They are 98 percent of jail population.
Plush areas in Havana are "sundown" neighbourhoods.
Havana still has a large white presence in good areas to the west of the city, Santiago (the second city) is mostly black and Holguin (the third city) is entirely white.
The countryside is mostly white.
Blacks and mulattoes live in very concentrated areas in urban places visited by tourists, they deserted the countryside except the province of Guantanamo, Santiago and a few more.
Since there's a poster from Baracoa, in the province of Guantanamo, Baracoa is a mostly white city and I can attest that since I was 3 month ago at el campismo del Yunque.
Cuba must be the only country in the world in which black/mulatto birthrate is falling, the rationing card only covers 6 days.
Blacks have more exposure since they are used in all "folklorical activities" (much like Gypsies in former socialist countries).
I'm not sure what the point of your post is, to be honest. Brazil is a mostly non-white country, but it is also extremely segregated, with the blacks/mulattos having disproportionately less resources/wealth.

One doesn't have to go somewhere to know basic facts, especially when you lived in Miami and have asked CUbans about their own country.

Who cares about the countryside or Holguin or any other city in the country? That wasn't part of the question. The focus is on Havana, which by your own consent has a "large" but not overwhelming white presence.

Moreover, the birthrates of different Cuban groups has little to day with the general look of the people, or rather the people of Havana. Over time, there will be a change in said look, as some are not replacing and others are. Havana today, the topic of choice, would look decidedly out of place in Europe, especially when compared to the island of Saint Martin/ Sint-Maarten, which has a higher European percentage as well.

And just because Blacks have global exposure in part due to "folklorical activities" (I have NO IDEA what that means in this context, by the way. Santeria, perhaps?), does not diminish their presence within the country. In some ways, it highlights how much influence afro-cuban culture has on the culture, complete with their demographic size.
 
Old 06-16-2012, 04:55 PM
 
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I repeat, you have to be there and know Spain. Habana Vieja looks decisively like a 500 year old Andalusian city. Centro Habana does look like a strange combination of the New World and Andalusian and Castilian cities such as Valladolid or Salamanca. Vedado is definitely modern, with no equivalent in Spain and Miramar and several other plush neighbourhoods have no equivalent in luxury or space in Spain.

As to the presence of whites and your typical American racial obsession, I don't see the relation between "looking like an Andalusian/Spanish city and having blacks and mulattoes selling peanuts in the streets". That's nonsensical.

Please, don't compare such crap islands such as Saint Martin with Havana or Cuba, you are comparing the pearl of the Caribbean with a little crock of an island that only served as a sugar factory. When you say such things. it becomes quite clear that you have never been out of Hialeah.
 
Old 06-16-2012, 05:30 PM
 
497 posts, read 875,685 times
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So much anger, so much nonsense, and so little time...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cojoncillo View Post
I repeat, you have to be there and know Spain. Habana Vieja looks decisively like a 500 year old Andalusian city. Centro Habana does look like a strange combination of the New World and Andalusian and Castilian cities such as Valladolid or Salamanca. Vedado is definitely modern, with no equivalent in Spain and Miramar and several other plush neighbourhoods have no equivalent in luxury or space in Spain.
Please show me where I denied Havana's ARCHITECTURAL "Europeanness!" Show me where I refuted the obvious Spanish influences and architectural "look" of the city. You won't be able to, and will realize that the quoted above section of your post makes no sense within the context that this discussion has reached.
Not ONCE did I deny how Cuba's Spanish architecture. In fact, I said in a previous post that DESPITE Cuba's architecture, Havana has become less "European." And, with the emigration of many Cuban whites, I'd LOVE to see how you can refute that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cojoncillo View Post
As to the presence of whites and your typical American racial obsession, I don't see the relation between "looking like an Andalusian/Spanish city and having blacks and mulattoes selling peanuts in the streets". That's nonsensical.
*Sigh*...I will present to you YOUR OWN POST as help in answering these "sentences." Read your previos post directly below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cojoncillo View Post
Havana was a very Spanish city until 1959 (communist revolution) and was a REAL Spanish city until 1898. 30 percent of its population in 1959 was born in Spain. They city also sported a Chinatown, a Jewish neighbourhood and a Lebanese neighbourhood, they all fled to Miami.
Though most of the white population of Havana fled, the city still retains a very Spanish character.
You were the FIRST in this thread to explicitly outline race/ethnicity, and its implicit effects on the "Europeanness" of Havana, not I. I guess that makes you more of a gringo than this American!

Furthermore, you cannot deny the influence of WHITE PEOPLE on how EUROPEAN a city feels, it's common sense. You yourself implied that Havana's "Europeanness" has decreased since the mass emigration. Your previous post is both working against your claims and bolstering my own.

To continue, who ever started talking about " having blacks and mulattoes selling peanuts in the streets?" I sure didn't, so what exactly is nonsensical?

If your referring to my belief of the link between demographics and the "feel" of a city/country, please refer to your own post that agrees with this. I even quoted it for you up top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cojoncillo View Post
Please, don't compare such crap islands such as Saint Martin with Havana or Cuba, you are comparing the pearl of the Caribbean with a little crock of an island that only served as a sugar factory. When you say such things. it becomes quite clear that you have never been out of Hialeah.
What gives you the right to call Islands in the Caribbean as "crap?"

Explain that, because you sure didn't refute my belief that Saint Martin has a more European "feel" than the city of Havana!

And I love Hialeah! Beautiful Florida weather. And I must say, living in New York, studying in Washington, DC, and preparing to spend a year in Brazil constitutes as being "out of Hialeah," no?
 
Old 06-16-2012, 05:49 PM
 
546 posts, read 1,224,164 times
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How could you talk about the Europeaness of Havana if you have never been to Europe or to Cuba?
Saint Marteen is as European as Hialeah.
 
Old 06-16-2012, 07:26 PM
 
497 posts, read 875,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cojoncillo View Post
How could you talk about the Europeaness of Havana if you have never been to Europe or to Cuba?
Saint Marteen is as European as Hialeah.
Statistics and personal anecdotes are all you need to answer that question. The entire island of Saint Martin is over 85% White/European. That's pretty white, especially when you compare that to Cuba's demographics, which state that over 60 to 70% of its population is "light-skinned."

Notice it is "Light-skinned," not White. "light-skinned" is a VERY open term, and can encompass just about everyone, depending on who's answering.

And one doesn't need to go to Europe to know Europe is overwhelmingly white.

Sir, a lot of these things we're arguing about is common sense. Europe is pretty white, and demographics indicate that so is Saint Martin, especially compared to Cuba. In fact, there are multiple reports that indicate that the country is much "darker" than the demographics implies, but that has little to do with this conversation.

And Hialeah is over 90% white, so I don't know what you bringing up some city in Florida has to do with any of this...?

Speaking of, WHAT exactly is your obsession with the place? We're talking about HAVANA, CUBA here. THANKS!
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