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Old 06-16-2012, 04:19 PM
 
15,042 posts, read 13,630,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DginnWonder View Post
If you can show me where I said that "ordnung" places German character "on a lower level" than the US, I'd be highly appreciative.
You've said that the United States have "monopoly" on people and culture somehow.

"A country is more than jobs and opportunities. It is its people and culture, two facts on which the United States has had a (now waning) monopoly."

In the reality, SOME people prefer more distinctive European cultures ( be that French or German,) because with it comes the whole distinctively different package ( food, cities, architecture, style of life) and for that some people are ready to overlook the negative side of the national character, such as mentioned above "ordnung" for example.


Quote:
I cannot speak for Canada and Australia, but most Americans do not view this country as "multi-national", but multi-RACIAL and/or multi-CULTURAL. Big difference there. Whites, Blacks, Asians, etc. all refer to themselves as AMERICAN. Granted, people may refer to themselves as African-American, Asian-American, European-American, but the link between them is -AMERICAN. In fact, the whole point of this thread is how fiercely patriotic Americans are. We are ONE NATION with MANY PEOPLES, not MANY NATIONS within ONE STATE. Big difference there.
You are right here, multi-racial/multi-cultural is of course a better word, but I am obviously not a "fiercely-patriotic American"; things that I've seen in terms of racial division in this country rather left me quite skeptical in this respect.

Quote:
Also, the trade-off you speak of goes both ways. There are things in the New World that you will not find in the Old World, such as a dearth of Ordnung (thank God, imo). As I said earlier and also in this thread, some like things "A", and others things "B."
Of course it goes both ways. As I've said earlier it's matter of personal preference - who values what more.
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Old 06-16-2012, 06:13 PM
 
Location: American Expat
2,189 posts, read 4,715,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stateisota View Post
I recently read a thread by "God Bless America" and I have come to realize, especially on this forum, that many of my countrymen are obnoxiously arrogant about this country.

Not at all. I, for one, think we have CAN do better and that we have the MEANS to do better. But we don't.


Ok lets get this out of the way first, America is a good country to live in. It is rich, there are opportunities and has a decent quality of life.

However there are opportunities in others countries and it confuses me that people here consider America the only place you can get a job. America has tough immigration system and I don't see any advantages here per say Germany when it comes to finding a career.

It all comes down to preference. That's it, nothing else. We are all lucky to be posting on the internet but arguing such silly points only proves you have major short comings about your own beliefs.

I myself am a fan of Germany and its lifestyle. I enjoy the walkable cities with many features to them. Religion is generally not a big deal and people mind their own business. Nightlife is amazing and you can party all night. Not to say we don't have walkable cities but NYC and San Francisco are extremely expensive places to live and don't nearly have the features that cities like Hamburg and Berlin have. That is not to say they are not nice places to live, I just have a preference for German cities and hope to move to one someday.

I don't understand why people such as the OP of the other thread have to argue day and night that their preferences are the CORRECT preferences. Honestly can you all just cork it and have nice discussions on this part of the forum? I don't want to see this turn into the trollfest that is political forum.

Well, if you open up such a thread on a public forum, then you will have people arguing about your point of view. It's common sense, isn't it?

And come on..lol. His OP was loaded with bold opinions. That's an invitation.
And I thought the dude above me is Russian.
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Old 06-16-2012, 07:06 PM
 
497 posts, read 874,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
You've said that the United States have "monopoly" on people and culture somehow.
No, I didn't. Re-read the very phrase of mine that you quoted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
"A country is more than jobs and opportunities. It is its people and culture, two facts on which the United States has had a (now waning) monopoly."
Notice the HAS HAD and the NOW WANING part? Yeah, that pretty much proves that I never said the US HAS a monopoly on power. In fact, I'm saying it once had it, and is now losing it. You cannot deny that there was a period of human history when the US had an unrivaled monopoly on most things, including culture. From Hollywood to Times Square, from Capitalism to democracy, American influence is still felt today, but nowhere near the level it once enjoyed. In fact the net migration rate of this country is a testament to how American ideals, myths, and CULTURE influence the minds of today.

I mean, I'm sure you've heard of the AMERICAN DREAM, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
In the reality, SOME people prefer more distinctive European cultures ( be that French or German,) because with it comes the whole distinctively different package ( food, cities, architecture, style of life) and for that some people are ready to overlook the negative side of the national character, such as mentioned above "ordnung" for example.

Can you show me where I said that this was a bad thing? Once again, I said that it works for SOME PEOPLE and not for OTHERS. I'm beginning to question your reading ability, because you're regurgitating what I wrote more succinctly further back in the thread, but this time you're arguing it TO me, as opposed to WITH.

I gotta admit, I'm confused by your points here, because they sound just like mine...

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
You are right here, multi-racial/multi-cultural is of course a better word, but I am obviously not a "fiercely-patriotic American"; things that I've seen in terms of racial division in this country rather left me quite skeptical in this respect.
It was inaccurate for me to imply that every single American is fiercely patriotic, because that is a falsehood. Still, your point doesn't refute my own, which posits that there is a thread between the races of a general "Americanness." Racial divisions and attacks are a sad fact in American society, but not too dissimilar from intra-indian attacks, or the UK's discrimination of people based on location/accent. It shouldn't leave you skeptical, especially when you compare racial tensions from 50's, 60's, and 70's to now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Of course it goes both ways. As I've said earlier it's matter of personal preference - who values what more.
...Right...so, we agree in this then...
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Old 06-16-2012, 07:07 PM
 
497 posts, read 874,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
And I thought the dude above me is Russian.
I didn't think he was American either

I still kinda don't tho...!
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Old 06-16-2012, 09:47 PM
 
15,042 posts, read 13,630,756 times
Reputation: 6916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
And I thought the dude above me is Russian.
Dearest Glucorious;

A. I am not a dude.
B. I lived half of my life in the US.
C. You can think whatever you like.

( Hope that helps.)
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Old 06-16-2012, 10:07 PM
 
15,042 posts, read 13,630,756 times
Reputation: 6916
Quote:
Originally Posted by DginnWonder View Post
No, I didn't. Re-read the very phrase of mine that you quoted:

Notice the HAS HAD and the NOW WANING part? Yeah, that pretty much proves that I never said the US HAS a monopoly on power. In fact, I'm saying it once had it, and is now losing it. You cannot deny that there was a period of human history when the US had an unrivaled monopoly on most things, including culture. From Hollywood to Times Square, from Capitalism to democracy, American influence is still felt today, but nowhere near the level it once enjoyed. In fact the net migration rate of this country is a testament to how American ideals, myths, and CULTURE influence the minds of today.
We were not talking about "monopoly on power," just monopoly on people and culture, and yes, I have forgotten that America once did have the "monopoly on culture" - probably back in the 40ies-70ies, but we are talking "pop-culture" here, while I have tendency to think about "culture" in classical terms, i.e. classical music, literature, poetry, philosophy - culture that Europe excelled in.


Quote:
I mean, I'm sure you've heard of the AMERICAN DREAM, right?
Yes I did, I just never "bought" this idea.

Last edited by erasure; 06-16-2012 at 10:33 PM..
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:17 PM
 
497 posts, read 874,073 times
Reputation: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
We were not talking about "monopoly on power," just monopoly on people and culture, and yes, I have forgotten that America once did have the "monopoly on culture" - probably back in the 40ies-70ies, but we are talking "pop-culture" here, while I have tendency to think about "culture" in classical terms, i.e. classical music, literature, poetry, philosophy - culture that Europe excelled in.


Yes I did, I just never "bought" this idea.
Yes. In the context that I am using "culture," I mean pop culture.

As for the American Dream, it really doesn't matter if you did or didn't. THe fact is that many did, further cementing America's cultural influence.
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:44 PM
 
15,042 posts, read 13,630,756 times
Reputation: 6916
Quote:
Originally Posted by DginnWonder View Post
Yes. In the context that I am using "culture," I mean pop culture.

As for the American Dream, it really doesn't matter if you did or didn't.
Of course it matters.
Because if everyone would have "bought it," we wouldn't be discussing why some people ( Americans and non-Americans alike) are still not convinced that America ( and American dream) is "it," and they still prefer Europe.
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Old 06-17-2012, 12:05 AM
 
497 posts, read 874,073 times
Reputation: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Of course it matters.
Because if everyone would have "bought it," we wouldn't be discussing why some people ( Americans and non-Americans alike) are still not convinced that America ( and American dream) is "it," and they still prefer Europe.
No. No it doesn't.

Just because some -hell, just because most- don't believe in the American Dream, does not diminish it's power. Notice how every other country's "Dream" is compared to the US'. This highlights how strong American culture is, at it is seen as the benchmark from which other "Dreams" are compared to. Time and again, we see everything from History, music, to films using American equivalents from which to compare.

Diana D'ors = UK's Marilyn Monroe

Bollywood = Clearly using the word "Hollywood" to christen the industry

Why don't we just agree on this: The US enjoyed a considerable amount of power in regards to culture, and this power has waned in more recent years. Also, some like American culture, and others prefer alternative cultures, such as French or German.

Agreed?
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Old 06-17-2012, 06:29 AM
 
7,148 posts, read 7,971,431 times
Reputation: 4383
on a one to one personal level , i have not noticed americans being in anyway disrespectfull of other nations , i cant say the same for some other nations people , sure they ( americans ) are not slow to declare their love for america but that is entirely different
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