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Old 09-28-2012, 06:53 PM
 
Location: West Coast
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Brazil is light years behind the U.S. on a lot things. I don't know why people keep trying to compare the two countries. It it were a track meet, Brazil would be still at the starting block. The U.S. would have won the race and went home already.

 
Old 09-28-2012, 07:31 PM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 8 days ago)
 
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Quote:
You can't even began to compare a American ghetto to a Brazilian favela.
Favelas are much worse than American slums, we can agree there. However, I was not talking about which one was worse. The point I was making is that in Brazilian society as well as in American society, Blacks are often the poorest.

Quote:
African Americans buy power is 1.1 trillion, that equal to being the 11th highiest GDP in World If Blacks Americans were alone in the US. As I said yes there's a racial equality gap in the US but no way in hell can you compare the Black & Brown Brazilians social situation of racial equality in Brazil, to Blacks Americans living in the US. Again less than 25% of Black Americans live under Americans high standards of poverty, over 3/4 of African Americans are middle class and up.
Quote:
In Brazil one third of the population is living under the official poverty line. Blacks count as 70% of the poor, according to the federal research institute IPEA. There's no way you can compare. Black and Brown brazilians make up 80 million and there still much drastically larger Blacks middle class Americans.
Today, the spending power of African-Americans is much larger. African-Americans by and large are much more likely to be middle class than Black and Brown Brazilians. However, African-Americans, in the sense of being compared to other ethnic groups in the USA, are more likely to be poor. It goes back to how race and class are intertwined in both situations. In Brazil's case, class divisions are much stronger.



Quote:
See Brazilian culture not only prevent the Jim crow system (the racism) but it discourage Blacks and Browns organizing to pull their selves out of a disadvantage. Blacks and Brown Brazilians lack political groups representing them. They lack media representations and etc. They are nearly half the population, Are they near half the government?...... NO. Are they nearly half the employed?....... NO. Are they near half the faces you see on TV and magazine?..... NO. As I stated in America race is not a good or bad thing, racism is a bad thing. Avoiding the topic of race doesn't stop racism it ignores it. Brazil has been slow in fighting against racial equality.
The way I see it, Brazil never had the policies the USA had. It didn't have Jim Crow laws. One would think that this would give Black people an advantage in Brazil. Not really. As you said, there are still alot of issues in Brazil. This is what I believe. Brazil has been presented as a multiracial democracy. The idea was that racism could not exist because it isn't allowed to exist. I think because of this, many people believe that there is no problem with racism with Brazil. In the USA, Blacks were constantly belittled directly and told they were nothing, and openly denigrated. In Brazil, it was more subtle. Like you said, Blacks have very little representation in politics, the media or in the jobs. People were made to believe that racism didn't exist, that rather only class was the reason, so many people bought into it and believed, so in a way, it didn't lend to things such as the Civil Rights movement. There was still racial discrimination. It just existed more covertly, and it wasn't called to attention as much.

However, many institutions in Brazil, such as the universities, realize that discrimination still exists, so there are efforts to amend this. In Brazil, affirmative action is being used. However, it isn't going to solve all of the problems because what many people do not understand is how race and class are intertwined in many societies. Brazil is considered the most unequal society in the world. The rich are rich as the rich in Europe. The poor are as poor as the poor in Africa. When you have that to work with, it is going to take more than affirmative action.
 
Old 09-28-2012, 07:37 PM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 8 days ago)
 
47,997 posts, read 45,452,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy74 View Post
Brazil is light years behind the U.S. on a lot things. I don't know why people keep trying to compare the two countries. It it were a track meet, Brazil would be still at the starting block. The U.S. would have won the race and went home already.
The big issue in Brazil is class, and how race works in a class-based society. Brazil is a nation of extremes. You have wide gaps between the rich and the poor. Blacks are often the poorest, and they happen to be the ones who were enslaved. Sure, there was no Jim Crow. However, there is alot of poverty in Brazil in general. Combine that with discrimination, and there are going to be issues.
 
Old 09-29-2012, 12:43 AM
 
8,224 posts, read 10,780,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalaMan View Post
Let me give some examples of this "fusion", and the influences of many different cultures to form the Brazilian culture...



Brazilians love beer, and Brazil have many breweries and many traditional beer brands, some of them more than a century old. Brazil makes really good beer.

Who taught that to Brazilians? The German immigrants. The Germans taught us how to make good beer. The first Brazilian breweries were started by German immigrants. And now, beer is important part of the Brazilian culture, and we know how to make really good beer.


Why Brazil has the best pizza in the world? (Yes, we have!! No matter what you say!! ) Because the Italian immigrants taught us how to make pizza. Pizza is a "national passion" in Brazil, and it was the Italians who gave this contribution to our culture. And now our pizza is better than that of Italy!


And what about the Brazilian jiu-jitsu, the Brazilian martial art that is famous all around the world? The Brazilian jiu-jitsu was the creation of a Japanese immigrant, Mitsuyo Maeda, also known as "Conde Koma". That was a contribution of the Japanese immigrants to our culture.


Those above are just few examples of the contributions of the German, Italian and Japanese immigrants to the great "fusion" that is the Brazilian culture.


Those contributions of the Germans, Italians and Japanese were added to a Brazilian culture that was already a big fusion before their arrival, a fusion of the Portuguese culture, the African culture, and the native indigenous culture.

We have countless African and native indigenous influences in our cuisine, music and language.

The Portuguese influence is tremendous, starting by our language and our religion.

And we can not forget the influences of the Arab immigrants. Brazilians love sfihas!



All that forms the "melting pot" that is the BRAZILIAN CULTURE, that is not "African-Brazilian culture" or "Italian-Brazilian culture", is not the culture of "a group".

It's the culture of ALL Brazilians.



We all learn, since early age, to love all aspects of our culture, regardless of origin, regardless of where each aspect comes from.

There are many black Brazilians training jiu-jitsu, and many Japanese-Brazilians training capoeira.

There are Brazilians with Italian ancestry enjoying delicious "tapioca" of indigenous origin, and Brazilians with German ancestry enjoying sfihas and kibbes of Arab origin.


We don't divide ourselves according to our "ancestry". We were born in Brazil, and we are BRAZILIANS. Our culture is ONE, the fusion of many influences from all continents.
I understand what you are saying,and it makes sense.
Let an black american show up at a German beer festival.
They may be treated with scorn,or worse.

In the Usa,they separate the black community. Notice how the American media says"black America's problems,whether its crime,educational attainment,etc.
They should simply say "America's problem". Its as if black America is a nation all to itself within the Usa.
 
Old 09-29-2012, 03:11 AM
 
Location: Iowa, Heartland of Murica
3,437 posts, read 5,509,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
The big issue in Brazil is class, and how race works in a class-based society. Brazil is a nation of extremes. You have wide gaps between the rich and the poor. Blacks are often the poorest, and they happen to be the ones who were enslaved. Sure, there was no Jim Crow. However, there is alot of poverty in Brazil in general. Combine that with discrimination, and there are going to be issues.
My brother who happens to living in Brazil right now has an interesting way of describing the difference between African Americans and African Brazilians, it goes something like this:

African Americans are skeptical, hold grudges against American society and are often angry, they are fully aware of all the injustices that were done to them, but they have organized themselves and have been fighting these injustices for 50 years now. Many have realized that if they work hard and educate themselves, they can be as successful as any other group- they have made a lot of progress in the last 50 years.

Most African Brazilians are "happy people"- they think they have a good life, they live in a favela, but they are still "happy people"-conformed, ignorant, unaware and powerless. Most have no understanding of all the injustices that were done to them and there is little outrage about all the racism and discrimination they endure everyday- it seems like most African Brazilians have accepted their "inferior" position in society and just go on with their lives- happy!- If you look at most Brazilian favelas, you will understand that African Brazilians as a group have made little progress in the last 100 years.
 
Old 09-29-2012, 06:19 AM
 
56,540 posts, read 80,847,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio84 View Post
I thought the typical white admixture in African Americans ranged from 15% to 30% of DNA?

Anyway, I personally think that anyone with a predominant race admixture that is less than 90%, can be considered mixed since usually something shows physically that points to some mixture. Obviously the greater the admixture, the more pronounced the physical tell-tell signs that there was a mixture somewhere down a person's genetic tree.

I've seen studies that have concluded that white genes are much more prevalent in African Americans than black genes in European-Americans. It actually makes sense when you think about it.
Of course the last part of your post is true given that 80% of Black American descend from people that came before the Civil War and 70% of Whites descend from people that came after the Civil War. There are 5 times more White people than Black people in the US. I still wouldn't go around saying that Black Americans should identify as mixed. That is not socio-historically realistic and even genetically realistic, by and large.
 
Old 09-29-2012, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,558 posts, read 2,428,887 times
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There are more people of "African descent" in Brazil than in any other nation outside of the African continent.
 
Old 09-29-2012, 06:37 AM
 
56,540 posts, read 80,847,919 times
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Originally Posted by jerseygal4u View Post
I understand what you are saying,and it makes sense.
Let an black american show up at a German beer festival.
They may be treated with scorn,or worse.

In the Usa,they separate the black community. Notice how the American media says"black America's problems,whether its crime,educational attainment,etc.
They should simply say "America's problem". Its as if black America is a nation all to itself within the Usa.
I've done what you have stated in the first part of your post, except change the ethnic group. I have never had any problems actually.

Also, African Americans have been organizing and fighting for their rights for well over a century, if not for centuries. So, it has been a longer process than many people realize.

Eventhough there wasn't any Jim Crow laws in Brazil, there were some laws that restricted people of African descent there. Race and ethnicity in Brazil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (look at racial legislation)
 
Old 09-29-2012, 07:10 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 8 days ago)
 
47,997 posts, read 45,452,601 times
Reputation: 15314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
My brother who happens to living in Brazil right now has an interesting way of describing the difference between African Americans and African Brazilians, it goes something like this:

African Americans are skeptical, hold grudges against American society and are often angry, they are fully aware of all the injustices that were done to them, but they have organized themselves and have been fighting these injustices for 50 years now. Many have realized that if they work hard and educate themselves, they can be as successful as any other group- they have made a lot of progress in the last 50 years.

Most African Brazilians are "happy people"- they think they have a good life, they live in a favela, but they are still "happy people"-conformed, ignorant, unaware and powerless. Most have no understanding of all the injustices that were done to them and there is little outrage about all the racism and discrimination they endure everyday- it seems like most African Brazilians have accepted their "inferior" position in society and just go on with their lives- happy!- If you look at most Brazilian favelas, you will understand that African Brazilians as a group have made little progress in the last 100 years.
I never said there weren't issues in the Afro-Brazilian community. In fact, I even brought up that some of this is due to propaganda to a certain extent. I believe that the Afro-Brazilian community has not organized as they should because many have bought into the "multiracial democracy" phrase and many feel satisfied with certain things. In America, Black Americans are under no illusions about the way they are treated. When you are aware and you don't buy into certain things, it makes it easier to fight against injustice.
 
Old 09-30-2012, 03:40 AM
 
4,433 posts, read 4,415,587 times
Reputation: 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseygal4u View Post
I understand what you are saying,and it makes sense.
Let an black american show up at a German beer festival.
They may be treated with scorn,or worse.

In the Usa,they separate the black community. Notice how the American media says"black America's problems,whether its crime,educational attainment,etc.
They should simply say "America's problem". Its as if black America is a nation all to itself within the Usa.
I reading these post on here mis characterizing America racial relations. Minorities have the right to celebrate there own heritage this doesn't mean they don't associate, embrace, and inter tween with people different races. But that's what being spin on here like Americans only care about people there background which is BS and saying blacks don't like America or white Americans is beyond silly. I would be angry if people of German or Irish decent can't celebrate there heritage also. And beside the subcultures cause by ethnicity and religions there's a mainstream culture where every one take as there culture as Americans.

What I saying in American culture minorities rights if you don't knowledge minorities there's no minorities rights. If minorities feel they aren't represented well we can do something about we can at least support ourselves. Even back in segregation we had Harlem, Sweet Aurburn, Greenwood and etc. Today we have Spike lee, Tyler Perry, John Singleton and etc in films, We have Ebony, JET, black enterprise and etc, We have the TVone, BET and etc. we have NAACP, national urban league and etc. We have black history month because the lack of black history taught in schools. As I said black Americans don't sit and watch films with majority black cast all day we watch anything interesting a major film company throws to America in general. But it's important that these thing exist to created a cultural, and economical balance for the lack of representation.

In Brazilian culture this is damned if minorities aren't represented they just aren't represented. In america there's no cultural Tyranny of the majority. Minorities aren't cultural or economically oppressed. You don't have to be completing assimilated by the majority rule as far as culture. Blacks Brazil making 70% of the poor is something that don't suppose to notice because race doesn't suppose to be notice. Hence if minorities aren't represented they just aren't represented. Brazilian Culture has created a state were minorities are happy being 2nd class. Like Gilberto Freyre romanticize about slaves being equal to slave holders. I guess being a slave and being friends or having sexual relation with the a slave holder making them equal. Just like I guess if racial lines largely go long social economical lines for decades it's not racial.

As poster pointed out name a wealthy or middle Class Black/Brown Brazilian majority neighborhood? It's not like their aren't Black/Brown and white neighborhoods in Brazil. There's upper, middle and lower class white neighborhoods in Brazil but at the same time there are only poor Black/Brown Brazilian neighborhoods. It's not that Brazil don't have racial problems it's that Blacks/Brown that are conscious who bringing up Brazil racial issue are socially punish. See most people on TV, magazines and etc in Brazil are Brazilian, how ever the mix and Black pop are not represent well. That clearly a racial issues. That's not a "Brazilian problem" because most people on TV, magazines and etc in Brazil are Brazilian. By trying to find a "Brazilian problem" ignore the racial problem.
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