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Old 10-31-2013, 03:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey3131 View Post
A small percentage of black slaves came to America? Really?
Say "NO" to drugs!

Only 10% ended up in the USA. Almost 40% in Brazil. The USA was the only country where the slave population actually grew over time as slave owners preferred to "grow" their own slaves rather than importing them from Africa. Free born Africans were harder to control, having known freedom, and teh US planters wanted none of it if they could help it.

 
Old 10-31-2013, 04:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
What's ironic about the whole thing is that even though Brazilians of African descent aren't as identity driven about race as African Americans are, you have to admit that they are way more culturally connected to African culture than Black Americans could ever dream of.
The history was different. Most slaves to the USA arrived before 1776. Mnay to Brazil arrived in the 19th century.

That having been said Braail has some serious problems and only a very dishonest person will deny that. Please do not tell me that the people who live in Ipanema do not look totally different from the favelas. And I need only look at Brazilian media to see this. Not a report from some African American.
 
Old 10-31-2013, 04:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doll Eyes View Post
even if they did have african descent and there's a lot of them, what difference does it make when many people there are very 'color struck,' they favor lighter skinned, lighter eyes over the dark skinned Brazilians anyways. They hold the lighter skinned, mixed race looking blacks out to 'represent' what their country has to offer. I've known a few dark skinned people that thought they were going to get treated fairly there because of their population of blacks, they would've been better off over here.

Yes. Why did black activists in Sao Paulo have to make threats in order for VISIBLY Afro descendant models to be allowed in a fashion show there?

How many Oprah's does Brazil have. How often do we see visibly Afrodescendant people reading the news or engaging in other discussions on their TV networks.

You know its very easy to find black Brazilian actors making all sorts of comments about how their skin color has hampered their ability to land a variety of roles.

So when folks are talking about one Brazil they need to address that fact.

BTW when I was in Rio I felt more aware of being "black" than I do in NYC. This is because being black has some serious implications given the extreme brutality that being poor in Brazil can create. And blacknessmore often equals being seen as poor in Brazil than it does in the USA. I am speaking from the perspective of some one who is in the moderate dark category. Halle Berry will have a very different experience.
 
Old 10-31-2013, 04:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalaMan View Post

The socio-economic gap between blacks and whites in Brazil is not bigger than that in the USA, and different from the USA, it's mainly caused by the historic weakness of the public education system in Brazil, and not by racism.


.

Nonsense to any one who has spent one second in Brazil. Brazilians make as much of an issue of being as free of racism as Americans do of being free of classism. Well racism is alive and well in Brazil just as we suddenly discovered that income disparities are in the USA.

It is clear to any one that there is a huge income gap between those who live in the favelas and those who live in Ipanema. It is clear as day that skin color seriously impacts how one is perceived and how one will be able to escape poverty. It is as clear as day that the darker a male is the more careful he must be when he enters zones occupied by the affluent in Rio.

Deal with the problem and stop pretending as if it doesnt exist,because it is way too easy to find Brazilians who do not agree with you. Even Afrodescendant actors who are way more privileged than the average Brazilian is.
 
Old 10-31-2013, 04:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
My brother who happens to living in Brazil right now has an interesting way of describing the difference between African Americans and African Brazilians, it goes something like this:

African Americans are skeptical, hold grudges against American society and are often angry, they are fully aware of all the injustices that were done to them, but they have organized themselves and have been fighting these injustices for 50 years now. Many have realized that if they work hard and educate themselves, they can be as successful as any other group- they have made a lot of progress in the last 50 years.

Most African Brazilians are "happy people"- they think they have a good life, they live in a favela, but they are still "happy people"-conformed, ignorant, unaware and powerless. Most have no understanding of all the injustices that were done to them and there is little outrage about all the racism and discrimination they endure everyday- it seems like most African Brazilians have accepted their "inferior" position in society and just go on with their lives- happy!- If you look at most Brazilian favelas, you will understand that African Brazilians as a group have made little progress in the last 100 years.

I do agree with this assessment from what I saw in Brazil. The position of blacks (pretos and dark mulatos) is worse off relative to other groups than what we have in the USA. In fact in the USA the big problem isnt the gap between blacks and whites. Its the gaps WITHIN the black community. A large middle class as emerged while too many remain trapped in the ghetto (physical and mental).

In a city .like Rio with its large black and mixed population, and a claim that racial segregation doesnt exist, its just shocking how often one can find how few affluent blacks/dark mulatos exist. I do agree that the black Brazilian mentality, as you describe, explains much of this.
 
Old 10-31-2013, 04:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I never said there weren't issues in the Afro-Brazilian community. In fact, I even brought up that some of this is due to propaganda to a certain extent. I believe that the Afro-Brazilian community has not organized as they should because many have bought into the "multiracial democracy" phrase and many feel satisfied with certain things. In America, Black Americans are under no illusions about the way they are treated. When you are aware and you don't buy into certain things, it makes it easier to fight against injustice.

True which is why I wonder why the "tolerant" traditional attitudes in Brazil are held as an advantage.

Brazil in 1950 was a better place to be black than the USA. Now in 2013, thanks to the Civil Rights movement and individual actions by an increasing black middle class, this is clearly no longer true. Especially for those on the darker end of the skin color spectrum.
 
Old 11-01-2013, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Fortaleza, Brazil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
I do agree with this assessment from what I saw in Brazil. The position of blacks (pretos and dark mulatos) is worse off relative to other groups than what we have in the USA. In fact in the USA the big problem isnt the gap between blacks and whites. Its the gaps WITHIN the black community. A large middle class as emerged while too many remain trapped in the ghetto (physical and mental).

In a city .like Rio with its large black and mixed population, and a claim that racial segregation doesnt exist, its just shocking how often one can find how few affluent blacks/dark mulatos exist. I do agree that the black Brazilian mentality, as you describe, explains much of this.

I love to see "gringos" trying to explain the "Brazilian mentality".

Yeah, you probably understand the "Brazilian mentality" and the Brazilian reality better than ourselves...
 
Old 11-01-2013, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Fortaleza, Brazil
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Go to the biggest favela in Rio de Janeiro, called Rocinha, and count how many blacks you can find.

Blacks are a SMALL MINORITY in Rocinha, the biggest favela of Rio de Janeiro.

The majority of the population in Rocinha are "nordestinos" (people from the Northeast of Brazil) and descendants of "nordestinos", and most of them are not "black".
 
Old 11-01-2013, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
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Perhaps it would be best to move away from color classifications, as such classifications differ. Sure there are more African descendants in Brazil, but the majority are mixed. For that reason, the people identify as such. Identify in the U.S. tends to be a bit different, with people of African descent generally identifying solely as "black" even when of mixed heritage over generations.

Anyway, it's quite interesting to see the varying dynamics in nations where the largest or significant populations are Euro and Afro descended.
 
Old 11-01-2013, 02:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalaMan View Post
I love to see "gringos" trying to explain the "Brazilian mentality".

Yeah, you probably understand the "Brazilian mentality" and the Brazilian reality better than ourselves...

The person who explained the "Brazilian mentality" is a Brazilian. If he is more honest than you are then thats life. But its very clear to any one who visits Brazil that the people who are "black" (in your terms preto or dark mulato.....the people in the movie "City of Men" as an example) are worse off than their equivalent in the USA. And not just because Brazil is a poorer country with fewer ladders of opportunity, because its nota s if white Brazilians arrived in that country fabulously wealthy or educated.

The difference is that the more explicit racism in the USA forced blacks to develop an ethnoracial identity which led to them to fight for improved socio economic and political rights (in alliance with fair minded whites). While there remains a large segment who remain trapped in poverty a large group has now emerged into the middle, and even upper middle classes.

The USA, like Brazil, suffers from high levels of income inequality, so we can rule that out.
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