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Old 09-25-2012, 06:12 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 11 days ago)
 
5,167 posts, read 8,019,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Yes I was assuming you were not American because what your saying is that beyond ridiculous.

First. off I'm actually a light afrocentric black person with obvious mix ancestry so your preaching to the choir.
There, I fixed it for you.

BTW, you're mixed race not black. This isn't a matter of what a person wants to be, but rather what they actually are. Many Americans, especially the Afro-descended ones, have serious issues accepting themselves for what they truly are. They go through great lengths to avoid calling themselves what they are, but to me that's ridiculous since regardless what people call themselves, it doesn't changes a thing about them. A mixed person remains mixed and will always be mixed, they should just accept themselves and move on.

 
Old 09-25-2012, 06:59 AM
 
56,514 posts, read 80,824,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio84 View Post
There, I fixed it for you.

BTW, you're mixed race not black. This isn't a matter of what a person wants to be, but rather what they actually are. Many Americans, especially the Afro-descended ones, have serious issues accepting themselves for what they truly are. They go through great lengths to avoid calling themselves what they are, but to me that's ridiculous since regardless what people call themselves, it doesn't changes a thing about them. A mixed person remains mixed and will always be mixed, they should just accept themselves and move on.
If race is a social construct, then Black Americans are labeled accordingly and are not in denial of themselves. I think you are overemphasizing the mix thing and only in one way at that. There was mixing before arrival to the Western Hemisphere in all continents and 30% of American Whites have African ancestry ranging from 2-20%. That's not counting those with Native American ancestry(like Obama's mother). Slavery plays a big key in categorization and even in Latin America, they knew this. That's why in that part of the hemisphere, there are so many categories, as that keeps said people from creating a unified front to fight for equal rights or in slavery times, a revolution. Interestingly, there is a consciousness that is popping up throughout and among people of African descent in many of these countries.

Also, 80% of the genes in Black American are African. So, it isn't about going to great lengths to deny anything, by and large.
 
Old 09-25-2012, 07:27 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 11 days ago)
 
5,167 posts, read 8,019,848 times
Reputation: 4264
I've been searching for this study for a while now, finally found it!

My Choice, Your Categories: The Denial of Multiracial Identities
 
Old 09-25-2012, 07:34 AM
 
56,514 posts, read 80,824,285 times
Reputation: 12480
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalaMan View Post
For those who want to "force" Brazilian Pardos to identify themselves as "black", here goes a very simple question...


Those are members of a Brazilian indigenous tribe:


source: 1º ENCONTRO DE DEFICIENTES INDIGENA PATAXÓ HÃ HÃ HÃE | Índios Online


Should they be forced to identify themselves as "African Brazilian" or "black"?

They are INDIGENOUS people.


And most Brazilians have a lot of indigenous ancestry, so the skin color of the Brazilian Pardos can not be exclusively attributed to African heritage.

So, why Pardos "must" identify themselves as "African Brazilians" or "blacks"?
Pardo is really a colorized term that doesn't seem to take culture and/or consciousness into account, from what it sounds like. These people would be Native Americans in the US, not Black. There are Native Americans in the US, like the Lumbee,

that have people with African and/or European ancestry as well.

I think this is a part of the difference, as history, socialization, culture, consciousness, along with biological aspects contribute to race in English based cultures in this hemisphere versus Latin America. It seems like as more people of African descent become aware of this within Latin America and see a similar struggle with other people of at least substantial African descent, you start to see more of a unified front. This is occurring and increasing in Brazil as well.

Here is some interesting information from other Latin American countries and Brazil: MiamiHerald.com | Afro-Latin Americans

Check this out: MiamiHerald.com | Afro-Latin Americans
 
Old 09-25-2012, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Fortaleza, Brazil
2,564 posts, read 4,650,797 times
Reputation: 1562
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Pardo is really a colorized term that doesn't seem to take culture and/or consciousness into account, from what it sounds like. These people would be Native Americans in the US, not Black. There are Native Americans in the US, like the Lumbee, that have people with African and/or European ancestry as well.

I think this is a part of the difference, as history, socialization, culture, consciousness, along with biological aspects contribute to race in English based cultures in this hemisphere versus Latin America. It seems like as more people of African descent become aware of this within Latin America and see a similar struggle with other people of at least substantial African descent, you start to see more of a unified front. This is occurring and increasing in Brazil as well.

Here is some interesting information from other Latin American countries and Brazil: MiamiHerald.com | Afro-Latin Americans

Of course it's about SKIN COLOR.

There are no different "cultures" in Brazil related to "ancestry".

There is only the Brazilian culture, that can be divided into regional cultures from each state ("cultura gaucha" - the culture of the state of Rio Grande do Sul - or "cultura cearense" - the culture of the state of Ceara).

There is no "black culture" or "white culture" in Brazil. This is not how things work here.

The capoeira, a fight-dance created by the slaves, is praticized by Brazilians of all skin colors and all kinds of ancestry. It's not "black culture", it's Brazilian culture. You can easily find people with blonde hair and green eyes in a capoeira group.

Same thing for samba music. Samba is not "black culture", it's Brazilian culture. You can find both blacks and whites in the samba party.

There are no "cultural barriers" between people of different skin color or different ancestry in Brazil. We are all Brazilians, and we have all the same culture, the Brazilian culture, that is a fusion of many influences from Africa, Europe and the native indigenous peoples.

We really don't classify ourselves based on "ancestry" or "culture". When we are asked to classify ourselves, we do it based on the skin color, and we do it in three major groups: negros (blacks), pardos, and brancos (whites).

The only exception are the Asian-Brazilians, who are a small minority of the population, and are often classified as "orientais" because of their typical eye features. But even Asian-Brazilians are very integrated in the Brazilian culture. You can very easily find a "Japa" (a Japanese-Brazilian) in a capoeira group, or in a samba party.
 
Old 09-25-2012, 07:54 AM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 11 days ago)
 
5,167 posts, read 8,019,848 times
Reputation: 4264
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalaMan View Post
Of course it's about SKIN COLOR.

There are no different "cultures" in Brazil related to "ancestry".

There is only the Brazilian culture, that can be divided into regional cultures from each state ("cultura gaucha" - the culture of the state of Rio Grande do Sul - or "cultura cearense" - the culture of the state of Ceara).

There is no "black culture" or "white culture" in Brazil. This is not how things work here.
That's how it is in most countries.

The USA is one of the few where identity and race are correlated. I think it has to do with the much more racist nature of US culture that has lead to this division, while in other countries there's more harmony between people.

The people of this country don't even notice this until they travel to other countries and immerse themselves in those cultures. Only then does it becomes clear of how superficial American identity truly is and based on racial lines that don't even take into account the full diversity of the country, hell bent of denying huge segments of its population simply for being mixed.

It's sad, when you think about it, but you can see the consequences of this in this thread. That's why the proponents of the much more racist USA racial system, often present the Brazilian case as "dividing people," when in reality there is no division along racial lines, everyone shares a Brazilianess that most Americans are simply not able to understand, since there is no such thing as one Americaness, there are several and, unfortunately, they fall along racial lines as well, unlike in Brazil or much of the world.

So much denial and racial resentment in the USA, a country that is so great in other things and yet, can't get over this topic. The worst part is that there are many people that think the way race is treated in the USA is OK, that it shouldn't change, when its obvious it creates much more conflicts and gives people a myopic way of seeing the world, all through a racist filter. The reality is that Americans first see race and then everything else, a connection is first made based on perceived race and everything else follows that. Such a shame!

Last edited by AntonioR; 09-25-2012 at 08:05 AM..
 
Old 09-25-2012, 09:06 AM
 
4,433 posts, read 4,414,660 times
Reputation: 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio84 View Post
There, I fixed it for you.

BTW, you're mixed race not black. This isn't a matter of what a person wants to be, but rather what they actually are. Many Americans, especially the Afro-descended ones, have serious issues accepting themselves for what they truly are. They go through great lengths to avoid calling themselves what they are, but to me that's ridiculous since regardless what people call themselves, it doesn't changes a thing about them. A mixed person remains mixed and will always be mixed, they should just accept themselves and move on.
What I'm afrocentric because you want to be? fail.

See there go again not listening and it like your trying not to, I never said I wasn't mix I said race is not exclusive, do you understand what I mean by not exclusive? It Means you don't have confirm your self to one exclusive box if you mix. In fact being mix gives you the right to do this because your bi-racial and etc.

I'm Black and I'm also part white hence that how I'm mix, and the reason why I word that way is because I have majority Black ancestry anyways. You seem not to be understanding this. What your missing is Americans say there mix without calling themselves "mulatto" or "brown" by identify with all groups their mix groups their mix. And more with group they larger ancestry. We are saying what we are.
 
Old 09-25-2012, 09:12 AM
 
4,433 posts, read 4,414,660 times
Reputation: 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio84 View Post
I've been searching for this study for a while now, finally found it!

My Choice, Your Categories: The Denial of Multiracial Identities
Man, In your link it said stuff like this
Quote:
In Study 1, we focused on the types of situations that individuals perceive as
threatening to biracial or multiracial identities. Specifically, we asked mixed-race
participants of Black and White, Asian and White, or Latino and White backgrounds to describe a situation in which their biracial identity had been a source
of tension. W
That a called loaded Questions, they didn't ask people do they feel tension for being Bi racial. They ask mix people to name a specific situations of tension. That means in the answer there would have be tension. That's call a load question.
But than it get worst, base off that question.
Quote:
As predicted, participants mentioned a variety of situations in which they had
experienced identity denial. Only four participants (6.8%) were unable to recall
such an episode
So, Because most mix folks reject they have such issues there in denial....
I said if you want to find crap you will find crap, I just got done arguing with some saying most Texans want secession to divide up the US. He or she post all kind of links to support this at the end is this really how Texans feel? ..... no.

Second the only thing that really came of that was we should support expanding marking multiple boxes. We already do this on the Census, which actually go to my point. I telling you generally most mix people don't want to be called a "mulatto" or "brown" label they want to be called both black and White.

But let me you tell a little story back in high school in Taxes, In my old US history class there were 2 mix chicks. We had to take the Tax Test which is a major annul test. On there scan-tron, one was label white and the other was label black did they get upset no, in fact they just laughed. One of those chicks I reminder having a conservation about her being mix she said she identify as both and not just one. She also said she will response back to white or black because she both.
 
Old 09-25-2012, 09:52 AM
 
4,433 posts, read 4,414,660 times
Reputation: 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalaMan View Post
Of course it's about SKIN COLOR.

There are no different "cultures" in Brazil related to "ancestry".

There is only the Brazilian culture, that can be divided into regional cultures from each state ("cultura gaucha" - the culture of the state of Rio Grande do Sul - or "cultura cearense" - the culture of the state of Ceara).

There is no "black culture" or "white culture" in Brazil. This is not how things work here.

The capoeira, a fight-dance created by the slaves, is praticized by Brazilians of all skin colors and all kinds of ancestry. It's not "black culture", it's Brazilian culture. You can easily find people with blonde hair and green eyes in a capoeira group.

Same thing for samba music. Samba is not "black culture", it's Brazilian culture. You can find both blacks and whites in the samba party.

There are no "cultural barriers" between people of different skin color or different ancestry in Brazil. We are all Brazilians, and we have all the same culture, the Brazilian culture, that is a fusion of many influences from Africa, Europe and the native indigenous peoples.

We really don't classify ourselves based on "ancestry" or "culture". When we are asked to classify ourselves, we do it based on the skin color, and we do it in three major groups: negros (blacks), pardos, and brancos (whites).

The only exception are the Asian-Brazilians, who are a small minority of the population, and are often classified as "orientais" because of their typical eye features. But even Asian-Brazilians are very integrated in the Brazilian culture. You can very easily find a "Japa" (a Japanese-Brazilian) in a capoeira group, or in a samba party.
Skin Color? that like marking Eye color on the Census. I'm trying to imagine The US census releasing how many blondes are Cali vs Florida. WTF

That's the thing in America we are classing our self not by skin color but rather ancestry and heritage. Only People of European and African heritage calling themselves commonly by color. The US is not a culturally monolithic country.

People many speak different languages, may have different tradition in families and etc. forcing minorities to completely assimilate is view as racist in America actually. This goes along with the freedom of religion and other rights you have as American. This also doesn't change for the most part we all get along. American culture is something very broad and of course people share that large culture as Americans. Everything is not black vs White.

By the way African American Culture doesn't mean something only African American can do, or the only culture that African Americans can celebrate. It means things stared in black communities especially historically. For instance Jazz can be called Black Music does that mean all black listen to jazz? no... I don't like jazz music and I'm Black. Do that mean only blacks can listen to Jazz? no any one can. I like Mexican Food I'm Mexican American? No.
 
Old 09-25-2012, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Fortaleza, Brazil
2,564 posts, read 4,650,797 times
Reputation: 1562
I would like to point that expressions like "African-Brazilian", "Italian-Brazilian", "German-Brazilian", only make sense in English.

Because in Brazil, in Portuguese language, nobody uses those expressions in the everyday life.

Everyone has just one identity in Brazil: BRAZILIAN.

And as I said before, there is no "culture" associated with "ancestry" in Brazil.

OK, there are some little towns in Southern Brazil were there are many descendants of Germans who like to make festivals celebrating the "German culture", but they all identify themselves just as "Brazilians", not as "German-Brazilians". And people from all backgrounds and ancestries attend those festivals, even people with no German ancestry at all.

In general, there is only one culture, the Brazilian culture, that is an amazing FUSION of influences from different origins.

That's why Brazil is a "mixed country" not only in the DNA of the people, but also in the culture.
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