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Just wondering as to where you got that US information, as that seems to be off? I also question the Cuba information due to variations in information.
Didn't the poster give a link to the source of their info, which is the CIA website??
Didn't the poster give a link to the source of their info, which is the CIA website??
I see that, but there are conflicting statistics in regards to Cuba's demographics. I could be wrong though. Same with the US, as I can only recall a few censuses where the black percentage was under 10%: African-American Population — Infoplease.com . So, I don't know how the US was every well over 90% at any period of time just based off of the Black percentage.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 08-31-2012 at 09:06 AM..
I see that, but there are conflicting statistics in regards to Cuba's demographics. I could be wrong though. Same with the US, as I can only recall a few censuses where the black percentage was under 10%: African-American Population — Infoplease.com . So, I don't know how the US was every well over 90% at any period of time just based off of the Black percentage.
The way I see it, Cuba after 1959 has some dubious statistics, kind of like how the Soviet Union worked. The percentage of Blacks in Cuba could be lower or higher depending on how it is counted.
After watching a documentary by Henry Louis Gates Jr about Black in Latin America, I found out a few things. The Communist revolution that came to Cuba was suppose to get ride of all racism that had existed in Cuba at the time. However, in truth, it hasn't always lived up to it. Alot of things are not talked about because under Communist Cuba, there is supposedly "no racism". It is still there, just hidden more.
One thing about Cuba that is different from the USA is that Cuba never had the "one drop rule". Under the one drop rule of the USA, alot of Cubans would be considered Black. However, in Cuba, it doesn't work that way. Racial mixing was never illegal in Cuba.
I think race relations in the West Indies tend to vary. As far as it being perfect and being free of tensions, not so. On the other hand, there are other differences. I never heard of any one drop rule existing in the West Indies. I think it is more ambiguous. I have met quite a few West Indians in my lifetime. Most were Black, but I've met a few West Indians of European descent and Asian descent. An professor of my was a White female from Trinidad. When she presented her country, there was quite a mix shown. I've heard of things being very tense in Guyana. However, I've heard things are okay in Trinidad.
If the West Indies was a model for positive race relations then why did Sammy Sosa feel the need to bleach his skin to look whiter?
What about that dictator of the DR who wanted to erase blackness from his counrty?
I do think the colonies ruled by Great Britain have more racial harmony than countries ruled by Spain.
But then again,I don't associate Hispanic countries as being West Indian.
When someone say "West Indian" to me I think Trinidad and Tobago,Jamaica,Guiana,Bermuda,the Virgin Islands,and the Bahamas,and Haiti.
Latin America includes all of South America plus DR,Cuba,and other Spanish speaking islands.
If the West Indies was a model for positive race relations then why did Sammy Sosa feel the need to bleach his skin to look whiter?
What about that dictator of the DR who wanted to erase blackness from his counrty?
I do think the colonies ruled by Great Britain have more racial harmony than countries ruled by Spain.
But then again,I don't associate Hispanic countries as being West Indian.
When someone say "West Indian" to me I think Trinidad and Tobago,Jamaica,Guiana,Bermuda,the Virgin Islands,and the Bahamas,and Haiti.
Latin America includes all of South America plus DR,Cuba,and other Spanish speaking islands.
What happened with Sammy Sosa and Rafael Trujillo was in the Dominican Republic. Ironically, it was right next to the first Black republic in the world, Haiti.
Cuba and other parts of Latin America had its issues, but then again, so did the West Indies. Over all, however, race relations in Latin America and the West Indies are different than in the USA. In fact, the USA has never been any great example for race relations, in a historical sense.
The way I see it, Cuba after 1959 has some dubious statistics, kind of like how the Soviet Union worked. The percentage of Blacks in Cuba could be lower or higher depending on how it is counted.
After watching a documentary by Henry Louis Gates Jr about Black in Latin America, I found out a few things. The Communist revolution that came to Cuba was suppose to get ride of all racism that had existed in Cuba at the time. However, in truth, it hasn't always lived up to it. Alot of things are not talked about because under Communist Cuba, there is supposedly "no racism". It is still there, just hidden more.
One thing about Cuba that is different from the USA is that Cuba never had the "one drop rule". Under the one drop rule of the USA, alot of Cubans would be considered Black. However, in Cuba, it doesn't work that way. Racial mixing was never illegal in Cuba.
To clear up the "One drop rule", which is technically a misnomer considering that everyone would be Black under that rule, is that it was set in place in Louisiana due the large scale mixing in the New Orleans area where much of the Creole community lived. It was a part of segregation, as it followed the African lineage regardless of percentage. So, it should be called the "Last known African ancestor rule" or something to that effect. Keep in mind that Plessy v. Ferguson(1896), which led to Separate but Equal(aka Jim Crow), involved a person that was 1/8 Black(Homer Plessy). Homer Plessy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Back to Cuba, I agree that the Communist regime has something to do with the variations in regards to the demographics. I also think that the U.S. also has an influence on race to some degree in the rest of the hemisphere and that influence varies among the countries. Here is some interesting information on Cuba: Racism in Cuba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If the West Indies was a model for positive race relations then why did Sammy Sosa feel the need to bleach his skin to look whiter?
What about that dictator of the DR who wanted to erase blackness from his counrty?
I do think the colonies ruled by Great Britain have more racial harmony than countries ruled by Spain.
But then again,I don't associate Hispanic countries as being West Indian.
When someone say "West Indian" to me I think Trinidad and Tobago,Jamaica,Guiana,Bermuda,the Virgin Islands,and the Bahamas,and Haiti.
Latin America includes all of South America plus DR,Cuba,and other Spanish speaking islands.
The Dominican-Haitian issue I think is greatly misunderstood. I too thought like that, but after greatly studying the issue and after visiting the DR and immersing myself in the culture there (not just staying in a beach resort, which I did for a few days at the end, lol), a clearer picture begins to arise.
The Dominicans have had an uneasy relationship with their Haitian neighbors since the early to late 1800s, due to several Haitian invasions that left many areas the DR destroyed. The Haitians even attempted to commit genocide on the Dominicans in 1805, in an attempt of keeping the whole island to themselves. All of those bloody events, left a psychological mark on the Dominicans that was passed from generation to generation, with anything to do with Haiti seen in a very negative light. Many people think the anti-Haitian attitude started under the Trujillo dictatorship, but there's much evidence that such attitudes existed since well before the dictatorship started in 1930.
It wasn’t until the early 20th Century that Haitians started to migrate to the DR in large numbers, most did so illegally and under the Trujillo dictatorship, many were massacred in attempt to control the flow.
But that’s how Trujillo solved all of his problems, by killing people, regardless of who they were. For example, Trujillo also ordered the kidnapping of Spanish writer and professor at Columbia University, Jesus Galindez. He was kidnapped right in New York, flown to Santo Domingo and tortured and killed for writing anti-Trujillo books and criticizing the dictatorial regime while living in the US.
There are other cases too; in fact most of thousands of people that Trujillo killed were not even black, they were either white or light enough to be considered white in the Dominican Republic. There were three women that were killed by him and because of them, every November the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women is honored worldwide. Trujillo even attempted to kill Venezuelan president, Romulo Bentacourt and there are rumors that Ramfis Trujillo, the dictators son, played a role (money) in the assassination of John F Kennedy, supposedly as revenge for the CIA helping some anti-Trujillo Dominican groups in killing his father. In fact, the guys that killed Trujillo were high ranking white Dominican military officers, who were reacting in revenge because Trujillo had tortured and killed many of their white family members, despite the privileges they were suppose to have for being part of the elite.
Another aspect of the regime, especially when he ordered the killing of illegal immigrants from Haiti, was that the guards used some word that Haitians had a hard time saying correctly in Spanish. This was to distinguish the Haitians from black Dominicans, in order to protect black Dominicans from being killed. That whole event was purely anti-Haitian and not so much anti-black, IMO. The Haitian government didn't even made a big deal of the event with the Haitian ambassador to the DR accepting a dinner in his honor that Trujillo hosted. In fact, there's even a photo of that event between Trujillo and the Haitian ambassador enjoying the meal together, despite the massacre having occurred not too long before that event.
Race relations among the people there, as is the case in many other islands, is much better than in many other places, at least from what I have seen. In fact, the Dominican Republic is one of the few countries that supposedly has never had racially based wars. For example, there has never been an attempt of killing or committing genocide against any racial group of Dominicans (except the anti-Haitian thing, but remember that they were foreigners, black Dominicans were protected by the very same dictatorship that persecuted the Haitians and that speaks volumes of the nature of that event).
But what you say is true, the Caribbean doesn’t have a history that speaks of much racial harmony.
In Jamaica many Chinese felt the need to leave in the 1960s and 1970s because of anti-Chinese feelings there. Many riots broke out in Kingston in which Chinese businesses were destroyed and any Chinese-looking person was randomly attacked.
In Haiti, the Duvalier dictatorship killed many mulattos, although Haiti has a history of strong mulatto vs black rivalry, but that was mostly limited to government circles and the upper class of Port-au-Prince. It is said that Henri Christophe ordered the massacre of thousands of mulattos that lived between Port-au-Prince and Cap Haitien, because according to him, they could never be true citizens of Haiti since mulattos are not fully black. Many whites have also been killed in Haiti just for being white and as recent as the 1950s and 1960s, much of the white minority that existed was almost eliminated through hostilities from the dictatorship.
But, even in these places, I think those are more isolated incidents that don’t really permeate much of those societies.
When you travel there and experience many of these island societies, it becomes clear that race is simply not that important as it is in the USA. But people need to experience this; otherwise it’s very hard to even begin to understand this.
This is despite the Sammy Sosa thing, even though he didn’t go as far as Michael Jackson who even had plastic surgery to actually look white. I hear that Sosa’s original color returned a few months afterwards and is just as black as ever, unlike Michael. I think this, in some ways, speaks volumes between the US vs Caribbean way of seeing race and color. Not even heavy criticism and ridicule made Michael undo the damage that he did to himself and part of it, I think, has to do with his upbringing in the US and being submerged in the US racial system, which traditionally has been much more rigid than anything else in the Western Hemisphere.
Last edited by AntonioR; 09-03-2012 at 08:22 AM..
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