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Old 02-06-2013, 01:39 PM
 
2 posts, read 48,801 times
Reputation: 44

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I'm going to tell my experience living in Panama, the country, not the city in Florida. I suggest you read this before you consider visiting, moving, or starting your own business in Panama. Panamanians are doing a great job promoting their own country, trying to create a good image but the truth is Panama is waaaaaay overrated. I’m going to tell you how the real Panama is. I'm focusing on Panama City, capital of Panama, which is supposed to be the most developed area in the country.

I want to start by mentioning that there is a good amount of immigrants here from countries like Colombia, Venezuela, India, China, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua and other undeveloped countries. Panamanians who have never been in a developed country before, think this is because Panama is such a great country but the truth is that most Venezuelan come here running away from Hugo Chavez tyranny and Colombians from drug cartels and guerillas. There's also human trafficking, women brought from Colombia and Dominican Republic for prostitution. As for the rest of the immigrants, except for Indians and Chinese who have been in Panama for a long time, I'd say they are here due to the global crisis, in other words, if it's hard for American and European citizens to find jobs in their own countries, it'd be a lot harder for illegal immigrants, if you know what I mean...

Uncleanness
The first thing you'll notice when you get here is that there is garbage everywhere. There are two reasons for that:
1. Many Panamanians are untidy, you see them throwing garbage on the streets, even in their own neighborhoods and buildings, they don't wait until they find the next trash can or until they get home to properly dispose of it, they just throw it on the streets as they go. That includes some immigrants who come here with their bad habits too. Most Panamanians complain that garbage is not being picked up by the government institution in charge of that, as often as it should be (which is true) but you don't hear them complaining about how sloppy their own people is.
2. Apparently the government doesn’t assign enough funds to provide a better service, and a lot people are not paying their trash bill either. You see piles of garbage in many places and there is a lack of garbage containers causing an infestation of roaches and rats.

Men urinate on the streets like savages, so it's not just the pestilence of garbage you'll smell. Parents throw dirty pampers on the streets. There is no animal control; stray dogs and cats defecate and urinate on the streets and sidewalks. You see people picking their noses and flicking boogers off their fingers as if it’s ok to do it, and they do it right next to you! ugh... They don't care where they spit; they do it on tiled sidewalks while they walk in front of you, even inside buildings. The experience of living in Panama is simply disgusting.

Noise
Unless you live in a wealthy area, a building with security 24/7 or certain areas, there is a big chance that you're going to have at least a couple of noisy neighbors. People listen to their very loud music, they don't care if it's 8am on a weekend day, when you could rest a little longer because you're off from work, or they play their radios/mp3 on the bus, parties almost every weekend until 4, 6 in the morning. Drivers honking all the time for no good reason. Some of the old buses have something installed, (I don't exactly what) that makes a lot of noise as they break. Unsupervised children play outside their homes making a lot of noise in front of your house or inside your building. People are very inconsiderate, so don't even waste your time asking them to stop the noise or stop yelling, they'll make more, just to **** you off. And don't even bother calling the police; they'll do nothing about it.

Utilities
Panama used to have good drinking water, not anymore. I never suffered from stomach aches until the first week I got here. Now I have to buy expensive imported bottled water. There are complaints of stomach aches and diarrhea caused by contaminated water, sometimes even with dirt in it; however, representatives of the public institution that provides water, IDAAN, keep saying the water is drinkable. There are areas in the country where there is no water at all. Even if you don’t live in one of these areas, there will be days when you'll find there is no water in your home, that's "normal" in Panama. Nevertheless, you'll get your water bill without credits for those days you didn't get water. There are people who get no water at all and they still have to pay water bills! It's ridiculous.

Power outage
Yes, that happens too. Not as often as when the service was provided by the government but still happens. Sometimes your appliances will be damaged due to this problem, so make sure you get something to protect them. Uh, there is no such thing as being refunded for damages either.

Internet and Cable
The service is mainly provided by three companies and they don't service all areas. So, if only one company service your area and you're not satisfied with their service, you're screwed.

Cell phone Service
It’s expensive and a pain in the.... Sometimes they charge you depending on what number you're calling. So if you have provider A and you're calling someone with provider B, the cost will be different than if you are calling someone with provider C and D. They also need to work on a better signal.

Sexual Harassment
Many men, including immigrants, have no respect for women here. Nasty men harass women on the streets to the point that it gets very close to touching them. They sometimes even insult women (if the woman ask them to cease the harassment) and they tell them whatever they want, behaving like the Neanderthals they are. They still keep this very ignorant macho sexist mentality and apparently they always will. You might get a different treatment if you look like a foreigner = Caucasian.

Men on the streets, freely take pictures of women's behind with their cell phones. There's even a contest advertised on tv about giving a prize to the person who can get the best picture of their female neighbor; in the commercial they show a woman getting undressed as an example. Just to give you an idea on how they promote this behavior. Panamanian government does nothing to stop this intense sexual harassment problem. In fact, rape cases have tripled.

Customer Service. "The I don't know country"
One word for it: Terrible. They are rude, with no idea of what customer service is. If you ask them a question, they either seem to be bothered by you, they don't know the answer, or they'll ask you to ask someone else (who will not know either) or if you're lucky to get any service, you'll usually be left unsatisfied. Sometimes they'll look you up and down with this criticizing look. They have no sense of urgency and no consideration with customers, if they are speaking to a coworker (usually about something unrelated to work) they'll simply ignore your presence until they finish talking or they'll interrupt your conversation while you're talking to another representative.

Let me give you an example of how bad customer service is: I walked into a branch of a well-known cell phone service provider, where there were about 8 people on duty. I asked how much they charged per minute with prepaid plans, the first person answered: I don't know. She asked the girl seating next to her who didn't know either and then they asked a third person who finally answered a very basic question that every employee in that place should know. That's why I call Panama: "The I don't know country". That's almost everywhere you go, private and public institutions

Burocracy. Public Institutions
Wow... Where to begin?... Every four or five years (not sure), a new president is elected. Every political party has thousands of what I call "leeches". Leeches are people who support political parties to get something in return, usually jobs, properties or something else that represents money. If their party gets elected, be sure they'll get some of these.

Public institutions don't hire people based on their skills, experience and knowledge, they hire leeches who don‘t meet the requirements to fill the position, which causes disorganization and inefficiency at such places. You don't see their vacancies advertised in newspapers, websites or in their buildings. Human resources departments only manage people who are already in. I know a woman, a leech, whose job was to clean houses in the U.S., she studied Computer Programming in Panama but dropped out half way to get her degree. As soon as the political party she supported began its term, boom! She got hired for an important position in a Panamanian Consulate in the U.S. Another one, who worked as a retail clerk, with no college degree either, what did she get? A house near the Canal Zone area and a good job at a public institution. So, if you go to a public institution to do any paperwork, you'll probably end up upset and with a headache.

Service by phone is even worse, a lot of times they don't answer the phones, line is busy, they hang up on you, they'll keep you waiting, they'll transfer you to someone who won't help or they'll ask you to go in person, even if it's just to ask a couple questions. Forget about service via email or chat. They don't call cell phones in case you provided it as a contact number.

Example of burocracy: The University of Panama, not a government institution but it's subsidized by it, it has had the same Principal for over a decade. It used to be a good university, now I think it should be "fumigated". This place is so disorganized... the service you get from many of their employees is poor. Professors are hired, not necessarily for their knowledge and skills. I'm not exaggerating, I went to the Human Resources Dept. to ask how I could apply for a job as a professor, I was told that I had to "find" a professor who is already in to recommend me for a position, there was no other way. Validating transcripts is a nightmare that could last months and months... Just to give you an idea, I enrolled last year for a second bachelor's degree and stopped going after the first month. Their inefficiency and disorganization really got into my nerves. It might be better at branches located on the country side, I don't know. If you're asking yourself why this Principal is still there if most government employees are "rotated" every four/five years? Well, University of Panama has its own autonomy, so it's not that easy to kick him out. So now, you see more and more students paying high fees in private universities just to avoid the hassle.

Recently my father, who owns a small business, has been receiving phone calls from the Ministry of Commerce and Industries, telling him that he has to pay about $500 of something that he supposedly didn’t pay OVER 15 YEARS AGO!!! Of course my father doesn’t have receipts of those payments anymore, so now he has to pay that amount, just because they say so! Do you really want to have a business in Panama???? I desisted in that idea after the first month of being here.

By the way, could you believe the main public library in Panama doesn't offer free internet access to the public? Don't bother taking your laptop there

Pollution
Vehicles are supposed to pass an emission test but that's not really enforced. Air pollution is a problem.
If you want to go to a clean beach, you need to travel at least 1.5 hours away from the city, not because there is no water in the area, it's because is contaminated. They are in the process of cleaning the bay but it will be long before people can bathe there.

Work
The majority of people work 6 days x week, except for government employees. There are jobs available, but few are good. Salaries are low, most people make less than $800 x month, not enough to pay the basics if you had to live by yourself, so most people live with a spouse or family member, not necessarily because they're family oriented but because they need someone to share living expenses with. There is a Ministry of Labor, like there is a Dept. of Labor in the U.S. but they don't really do much to protect the people. Everybody knows someone (if not you) who got screwed by their employer. Representatives at the Ministry offer a poor service to the people, discouraging them to proceed with formal lengthy complaints. On behalf of certain employers, I can say they're having difficulties finding skilled workers due to the lack of proper education in certain areas, especially technical. Most responsible employees are overworked and underpaid. There is no competitive culture as in developed countries. There is a tendency to laziness sometimes caused by the low wages but most of the time, it's just because that's just the way they are.

Traffic
If you think traffic is bad in big U.S. cities, you've seen nothing. Most people spend 3-4 hours daily to go to work and get back home. Right now a subway/metro is under construction, if there are 8 workers at one of the construction sites, you only see two working, the rest are just killing time. Instead of thanking the President for doing something that should've been done long time ago by previous Presidents, you hear Panamanians complaining to him about the traffic caused by the construction that would take a lot less time if the workers weren't so lazy. I suggest they go to the construction sites and complain to the workers instead.

Another reason for the heavy traffic is that Panama City is overpopulated; there are few jobs available on the country side, so people have to move here to find a job. By the way, driving in Panama is very dangerous if you don't have experience sharing the streets with extremely disorganized drivers, disobedient of traffic laws, I suggest you ride the bus. Panamanians drive the same way they walk: cutting in front of you. Be aware of taxi drivers, they have the tendency to overcharge you, especially if you look like a foreigner. There are no meters in the cab but there is a map that shows regulated tariffs, but even if you ask to see it, you won't understand it.

Crime
There are criminals driving cars that look like taxis. Authorities recommend you check the taxi before you get in but there isn't really a way of knowing you're getting into a real taxi. They will pick you up, rob you and leave you stranded. Apparently anyone can rent a taxi "to work as a taxi driver". Thieves rob you just for a cell phone, they'll snatch it from your hands and run away with it, it's "normal".

Proximity to Colombia is a BIG disadvantage. Heavy drug trafficking and consumption in Panama thanks to them. Panamanians left without homes near the border because Colombians take them away from them at gunpoint. Panama is also used as a good route to move drugs to other countries. Panama used to be somehow safe but now it's the opposite, I'm afraid to go out at night, I hear news of people getting killed almost every day. Group of minors raping women and assaulting people with guns. Criminals also posing as police officers with uniforms and everything. Considering this a country with less than 4 million people, the situation is REALLY BAD

Leisure
There are only 3 places in Panama City (that I know of) for outdoor activities: Cinta Costera, Parque Omar and the Causeway. Not enough for an overpopulated city. As I mentioned before there is an air pollution problem, so exercising while breathing car emission isn’t healthy, duh

It’s ironic that a country with the Caribbean Sea on the north side and the Pacific Ocean on the south, doesn’t have a clean beach near the city. To my opinion, the best beaches are on the north side of the country, the only tourist friendly area there is Bocas del Toro, besides that, we have Colon which is not that safe and the rest is populated by indigenous people who fight for their land, not in a smart way though. They could have hotels and businesses built there to attract tourists and create more jobs, instead they do nothing with their land and end up moving to other provinces because there are no jobs in their area, thanks to them

Typical leisure activities for Panamanian adults are watching "novelas", partying, drinking alcoholic drinks, going to the movies and malls, gossiping, criticizing, and harassing women on the streets.

Panamanians
Profanity… I hear constantly, including from children and seniors who are supposed to set an example. Besides what I have mentioned before, the only thing I’ll add is this: Panama was, is, and will always be a third world country, thanks to its own people. They urgently need to change their mentality and behavior, and act as civilized people with good manners. Recently, an ex-president said on national tv that Panama is the best country in the world; wonder how is that possible for an undeveloped country? Yes, you’ll see high rise buildings that look really nice but nice looking buildings aren’t necessarily indicators of good quality of life. Panamanian government denies it but I’m pretty sure some of these buildings are being built with laundered money. Most Panamanians don’t live in these buildings, many of their tenants are foreigners. Middle class is disappearing, the rich is getting richer and the poor is getting poorer.

Cost of Living
I won’t specify because I don’t want to give you the wrong information but based on my experience, besides low cost public transportation, medical services and cheap clothing, you'll spend the same amount of money (probably more) as in the U.S. At least until last year, I noticed that a lot of houses and apartments cost more than in the U.S. Considering the low quality of life here, is it really worth it? Again, I want to emphasize that the description of the area and people I have given is from Panama City, not the whole country and not everyone is like that.

Last edited by Atenea11; 02-06-2013 at 01:50 PM..
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Chicago
210 posts, read 565,329 times
Reputation: 388
1. No one said Panama was a developed/wealthy country. It is, however, way more developed than other central American countries (Latin America in general).
2. Many of these issues occur in the USA. Many areas of the USA would make someone question just how 'first world' the country really is.
3. You can't go and live in a developing country and expect it to be just like your home country (which I'm assuming your American?).

And no I'm not Panamanian, I'm American.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Somewhere on the Moon.
10,056 posts, read 14,923,290 times
Reputation: 10358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atenea11 View Post
I want to start by mentioning that there is a good amount of immigrants here from countries like Colombia, Venezuela, India, China, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua and other undeveloped countries. Panamanians who have never been in a developed country before, think this is because Panama is such a great country but the truth is that most Venezuelan come here running away from Hugo Chavez tyranny and Colombians from drug cartels and guerillas. There's also human trafficking, women brought from Colombia and Dominican Republic for prostitution. As for the rest of the immigrants, except for Indians and Chinese who have been in Panama for a long time, I'd say they are here due to the global crisis, in other words, if it's hard for American and European citizens to find jobs in their own countries, it'd be a lot harder for illegal immigrants, if you know what I mean...
Panama is one of the wealthiest countries in Latin America and its one of the fastest growing economies in the world, producing plenty of job and business/investment opportunities. That is the main reason for why so many people are moving there. For example, not many people are moving to Nicaragua or El Salvador or Bolivia or Puerto Rico because there's not much going on there in terms of economic opportunities.

At the rate Panama is developing, it will be the third wealthiest country in the Western Hemisphere by the end of the next decade. In fact, as many developed countries are grappling with the international economic crisis, Panama has no crisis.

Quote:
1. Many Panamanians are untidy, you see them throwing garbage on the streets, even in their own neighborhoods and buildings, they don't wait until they find the next trash can or until they get home to properly dispose of it, they just throw it on the streets as they go. That includes some immigrants who come here with their bad habits too. Most Panamanians complain that garbage is not being picked up by the government institution in charge of that, as often as it should be (which is true) but you don't hear them complaining about how sloppy their own people is.
2. Apparently the government doesn’t assign enough funds to provide a better service, and a lot people are not paying their trash bill either. You see piles of garbage in many places and there is a lack of garbage containers causing an infestation of roaches and rats.
Most countries have not had a no littering campaign, so this is expected around the world. The US itself was quite littered before the no littering campaign and anti-littering laws were passed in the 1970s. I'm not excusing this, just saying that outside a select few countries, people should expect to see more litter on the streets.

Quote:
Noise
Unless you live in a wealthy area, a building with security 24/7 or certain areas, there is a big chance that you're going to have at least a couple of noisy neighbors. People listen to their very loud music, they don't care if it's 8am on a weekend day, when you could rest a little longer because you're off from work, or they play their radios/mp3 on the bus, parties almost every weekend until 4, 6 in the morning. Drivers honking all the time for no good reason. Some of the old buses have something installed, (I don't exactly what) that makes a lot of noise as they break. Unsupervised children play outside their homes making a lot of noise in front of your house or inside your building. People are very inconsiderate, so don't even waste your time asking them to stop the noise or stop yelling, they'll make more, just to **** you off. And don't even bother calling the police; they'll do nothing about it.
Most people are not trying to be inconsiderate or mean, that is just the Latin way of living. People love life and enjoy it the best way they can, hence music is a very big part of their lives. Yes, I know its the complete opposite of Anglo influenced culture, especially in the US/Canada; but, Latin America is quite noisy overall. Even in Europe, the Latin countries over there tend to be noisier too. I guess that's where Latin America got it from.

Quote:
Utilities
Panama used to have good drinking water, not anymore. I never suffered from stomach aches until the first week I got here. Now I have to buy expensive imported bottled water. There are complaints of stomach aches and diarrhea caused by contaminated water, sometimes even with dirt in it; however, representatives of the public institution that provides water, IDAAN, keep saying the water is drinkable. There are areas in the country where there is no water at all. Even if you don’t live in one of these areas, there will be days when you'll find there is no water in your home, that's "normal" in Panama. Nevertheless, you'll get your water bill without credits for those days you didn't get water. There are people who get no water at all and they still have to pay water bills! It's ridiculous.

Power outage
Yes, that happens too. Not as often as when the service was provided by the government but still happens. Sometimes your appliances will be damaged due to this problem, so make sure you get something to protect them. Uh, there is no such thing as being refunded for damages either.

Internet and Cable
The service is mainly provided by three companies and they don't service all areas. So, if only one company service your area and you're not satisfied with their service, you're screwed.

Cell phone Service
It’s expensive and a pain in the.... Sometimes they charge you depending on what number you're calling. So if you have provider A and you're calling someone with provider B, the cost will be different than if you are calling someone with provider C and D. They also need to work on a better signal.
Panama is a developing country and this is par for the course. There are different levels of disfunction between countries, but anyone that moves to a developing country expecting for it to be exactly like a developed one, needs to seriously evaluate themselves.

Periodic power outages? So buy a, or a few, battery inverters. They automatically charge themselves when there's power and then as soon as a power outage hit, they automatically turn on. Guess what? You will not even know when there's a power outage since your lights/power will be on 24/7.

Periodic water outages? So buy a cistern and water pump(s). Guess what? You will have water 24/7. Might want to buy one of those water heating shower heads and don't have to worry about taking cold showers either.

Quote:
Sexual Harassment
Many men, including immigrants, have no respect for women here. Nasty men harass women on the streets to the point that it gets very close to touching them. They sometimes even insult women (if the woman ask them to cease the harassment) and they tell them whatever they want, behaving like the Neanderthals they are. They still keep this very ignorant macho sexist mentality and apparently they always will. You might get a different treatment if you look like a foreigner = Caucasian.

Men on the streets, freely take pictures of women's behind with their cell phones. There's even a contest advertised on tv about giving a prize to the person who can get the best picture of their female neighbor; in the commercial they show a woman getting undressed as an example. Just to give you an idea on how they promote this behavior. Panamanian government does nothing to stop this intense sexual harassment problem. In fact, rape cases have tripled.
Political correctness and the feminism movement hasn't really taken much of a hold in Latin America, minus a few highly select places. This is also true in Latin Europe (especially in Italy), so we can see where Latin America got its influence from. Don't worry, with the way things are going, it won't be long before people in Latin America are walking on eggshells, just like in the US/Canada/Anglo-Germanic Europe.

Quote:
Customer Service. "The I don't know country"
One word for it: Terrible. They are rude, with no idea of what customer service is. If you ask them a question, they either seem to be bothered by you, they don't know the answer, or they'll ask you to ask someone else (who will not know either) or if you're lucky to get any service, you'll usually be left unsatisfied. Sometimes they'll look you up and down with this criticizing look. They have no sense of urgency and no consideration with customers, if they are speaking to a coworker (usually about something unrelated to work) they'll simply ignore your presence until they finish talking or they'll interrupt your conversation while you're talking to another representative.

Let me give you an example of how bad customer service is: I walked into a branch of a well-known cell phone service provider, where there were about 8 people on duty. I asked how much they charged per minute with prepaid plans, the first person answered: I don't know. She asked the girl seating next to her who didn't know either and then they asked a third person who finally answered a very basic question that every employee in that place should know. That's why I call Panama: "The I don't know country". That's almost everywhere you go, private and public institutions
Yes, this is true and its an issue pretty much everywhere outside of North America and Western Europe.

Quote:
Burocracy. Public Institutions
Wow... Where to begin?... Every four or five years (not sure), a new president is elected. Every political party has thousands of what I call "leeches". Leeches are people who support political parties to get something in return, usually jobs, properties or something else that represents money. If their party gets elected, be sure they'll get some of these.

Public institutions don't hire people based on their skills, experience and knowledge, they hire leeches who don‘t meet the requirements to fill the position, which causes disorganization and inefficiency at such places. You don't see their vacancies advertised in newspapers, websites or in their buildings. Human resources departments only manage people who are already in. I know a woman, a leech, whose job was to clean houses in the U.S., she studied Computer Programming in Panama but dropped out half way to get her degree. As soon as the political party she supported began its term, boom! She got hired for an important position in a Panamanian Consulate in the U.S. Another one, who worked as a retail clerk, with no college degree either, what did she get? A house near the Canal Zone area and a good job at a public institution. So, if you go to a public institution to do any paperwork, you'll probably end up upset and with a headache.
Its called clientelism and has been a feature of the Latin world (both in Europe and in America) for as long as these civilizations have existed. This is practically common knowledge, which makes me wonder how can there be people that don't know that if you move to a Latin country (or developing countries in general), that you will face aspects of clientelism?

Even in Puerto Rico, which is a US territory, clientelism is alive and well too.

Quote:
By the way, could you believe the main public library in Panama doesn't offer free internet access to the public? Don't bother taking your laptop there
Oh, the horror! Its like the end of the world.

Quote:
Pollution
Vehicles are supposed to pass an emission test but that's not really enforced. Air pollution is a problem.
If you want to go to a clean beach, you need to travel at least 1.5 hours away from the city, not because there is no water in the area, it's because is contaminated. They are in the process of cleaning the bay but it will be long before people can bathe there.
Sounds like Los Angeles. Funny, right?

Quote:
Work
The majority of people work 6 days x week, except for government employees. There are jobs available, but few are good. Salaries are low, most people make less than $800 x month, not enough to pay the basics if you had to live by yourself, so most people live with a spouse or family member, not necessarily because they're family oriented but because they need someone to share living expenses with. There is a Ministry of Labor, like there is a Dept. of Labor in the U.S. but they don't really do much to protect the people. Everybody knows someone (if not you) who got screwed by their employer. Representatives at the Ministry offer a poor service to the people, discouraging them to proceed with formal lengthy complaints. On behalf of certain employers, I can say they're having difficulties finding skilled workers due to the lack of proper education in certain areas, especially technical. Most responsible employees are overworked and underpaid. There is no competitive culture as in developed countries. There is a tendency to laziness sometimes caused by the low wages but most of the time, it's just because that's just the way they are.
There's a saying that in Anglo-Germanic countries in Europe and in America, people live to work; but in Latin countries (France, Spain, Portugal, Italy and much of Latin America), people work to live. There's a reason for that. Often times, Latin people that move to Anglo-Germanic countries, feel as if they are slaves to their jobs. Funny, right?

Quote:
Traffic
If you think traffic is bad in big U.S. cities, you've seen nothing. Most people spend 3-4 hours daily to go to work and get back home. Right now a subway/metro is under construction, if there are 8 workers at one of the construction sites, you only see two working, the rest are just killing time. Instead of thanking the President for doing something that should've been done long time ago by previous Presidents, you hear Panamanians complaining to him about the traffic caused by the construction that would take a lot less time if the workers weren't so lazy. I suggest they go to the construction sites and complain to the workers instead.

Another reason for the heavy traffic is that Panama City is overpopulated; there are few jobs available on the country side, so people have to move here to find a job. By the way, driving in Panama is very dangerous if you don't have experience sharing the streets with extremely disorganized drivers, disobedient of traffic laws, I suggest you ride the bus. Panamanians drive the same way they walk: cutting in front of you. Be aware of taxi drivers, they have the tendency to overcharge you, especially if you look like a foreigner. There are no meters in the cab but there is a map that shows regulated tariffs, but even if you ask to see it, you won't understand it.
Typical big city issues. I don't even know why people move to a city with more than one million people and then complain about traffic. Its a problem that goes with the territory.

Quote:
Crime
There are criminals driving cars that look like taxis. Authorities recommend you check the taxi before you get in but there isn't really a way of knowing you're getting into a real taxi. They will pick you up, rob you and leave you stranded. Apparently anyone can rent a taxi "to work as a taxi driver". Thieves rob you just for a cell phone, they'll snatch it from your hands and run away with it, it's "normal".

Proximity to Colombia is a BIG disadvantage. Heavy drug trafficking and consumption in Panama thanks to them. Panamanians left without homes near the border because Colombians take them away from them at gunpoint. Panama is also used as a good route to move drugs to other countries. Panama used to be somehow safe but now it's the opposite, I'm afraid to go out at night, I hear news of people getting killed almost every day. Group of minors raping women and assaulting people with guns. Criminals also posing as police officers with uniforms and everything. Considering this a country with less than 4 million people, the situation is REALLY BAD
That's true.

Quote:
Leisure
There are only 3 places in Panama City (that I know of) for outdoor activities: Cinta Costera, Parque Omar and the Causeway. Not enough for an overpopulated city. As I mentioned before there is an air pollution problem, so exercising while breathing car emission isn’t healthy, duh

It’s ironic that a country with the Caribbean Sea on the north side and the Pacific Ocean on the south, doesn’t have a clean beach near the city. To my opinion, the best beaches are on the north side of the country, the only tourist friendly area there is Bocas del Toro, besides that, we have Colon which is not that safe and the rest is populated by indigenous people who fight for their land, not in a smart way though. They could have hotels and businesses built there to attract tourists and create more jobs, instead they do nothing with their land and end up moving to other provinces because there are no jobs in their area, thanks to them

Typical leisure activities for Panamanian adults are watching "novelas", partying, drinking alcoholic drinks, going to the movies and malls, gossiping, criticizing, and harassing women on the streets.
That's expected in a small Latin country.

By the way, I'm not Panamanian nor am I dating/married/related to one. This thread simply reminds me of the type of people that move to the tropics and then complain that its always hot. Sheesh!

Last edited by AntonioR; 02-06-2013 at 04:02 PM..
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:35 PM
 
Location: MD's Eastern Shore
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IMO, the OP's post is excellent. He brought up some important things for possible "expats" to take into consideration when deciding to move to Panama. The same can be said for Costa Rica as well.

I truly love those country's and have spent plenty of time in both, esp CR. I've done a half dozen crossings through the canal and have waited plenty for our turn on both sides in Panama City and Colon. I even spent over a month in the San Blas going to Colon for supplies, and have made the trip to Pinas Bay which is one of my favorite places. I'ts a beautiful country and I would like to spend more time in Panama and with what I do there aren't many places that compare.

Many people go to those places for a vacation and fall in love with the place. Then they put their "blinders" on and buy a property, retirement home, etc.. As you spend more time in those places you start to notice the negatives which the OP is pointing out. It's up to the individual to consider whether his positives outweigh the negatives and it's hard to do when blindly going into it feeling it's a tropical paradise in which nothing can go wrong. It's not for everyone.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Sometimes Miami sometimes Australia
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We need more of these posts. It's hard to get the real deal when so much expat- directed literature focuses on the good points of living overseas - especially as many of those authors have vested financial information in a) getting wealthier people to invest/live there and b) sell more literature.

Articles about 'life changing experiences in tropical paradise' are far more likely to lure the unsuspecting then the truth

btw, I think Costa Rica is way overrated. It is basically a thirdworld cesspool too
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:12 AM
 
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Is Panama still considered to be better (more developed) than Chile, Uruguay, Argentina or Costa Rica?
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Somewhere on the Moon.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tropical87 View Post
We need more of these posts. It's hard to get the real deal when so much expat- directed literature focuses on the good points of living overseas - especially as many of those authors have vested financial information in a) getting wealthier people to invest/live there and b) sell more literature.

Articles about 'life changing experiences in tropical paradise' are far more likely to lure the unsuspecting then the truth

btw, I think Costa Rica is way overrated. It is basically a thirdworld cesspool too
This is the problem with threads such as this, pessimists that think the negative is the truth and everything nonsense. They even make it a case to make people think that the truth is just the negative aspects or the perceived negatives. After its said and done, many things one person considers to be a negative, another thinks differently.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:25 PM
 
Location: MD's Eastern Shore
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But its nice to see these kinds of posts. That way someone can make their own decisions. After all, pretty much everything on all these internet forums is just someones personal opinion and/or experience. Nothing more. The OP stated his experience in which I agree 100%, though it doesn't matter if I agree or not. He never said don't go.
I had my "blinders" on for a bit. I practically lived in Costa Rica for 10 years with a lot of time spent in Panama as well. Though I still spent most of the summers in the US. After the first couple years these issues started to get to me. Then it all just became a joke and something to laugh about. At the time these negatives weren't enough to stop me from spending time there. But then it just hit and I had enough.
I love Panama but I much prefer it here in the US. Let me get back to the point where I can escape here for only the coldest month's and I'd be happy.
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Somewhere on the Moon.
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Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
Is Panama still considered to be better (more developed) than Chile, Uruguay, Argentina or Costa Rica?
More than Costa Rica (the Costa Ricans have a problem accepting this because for most years they were above Panama), but still less than Chile, Uruguay or Argentina.

Panama is well on its way, though; so its only a matter of time before it not only matches, but also surpases those countries. Especially Argentina which will be facing a crisis soon due to all the craziness their current president has done to the country. In the next crisis, Argentina is going to become much poorer, which is sad since at the beginning of the 20th century, Argentina was among the top 10 most developed countries in the world.

Another country that has hit rock bottom and is still slipping further is Venezuela. As recently as the 1950s, Venezuela was the 7th richest country in the world. Not so anymore. Such a sad situation.

These countries should be evidence to Americans that developed countries can definitely become Third World. There are some Americans that think the US is not capable of slipping down to those levels, despite plenty of evidence of countries that have done that!
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada
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I did not find anything about OP's post to be remarkable.

This is exactly what I would assume people who are well-researched would know before making this move. I think expats looking to go there are aware the trade-off for a simpler, better value, laid-back life is that it's not as comfortable at ground level as the more developed countries.
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