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Also, one thing I have noticed throough the years is that the island splits in two in moat theme maps. It doesn't matter what the theme is, whether its economic development, language, health, tree cover, you name it; more often than not the island finds itself with two different shades. In a way, that border is one of the most real in the world because even if you do a map of most themes without highlighting the borders of any country, more often than not you'll know where the border is on this island by the different shades between the two countries. In fact, you can even make out the border by looking at photos taken from outer space. Not many borders are so pwrsistent as this one.
That is just propaganda. The WHITE elites who surround the Castro family, including Fidel and Raul themselves, are just as racist as the Cuban exiles in Miami. The cultural emphasis in Cuba was ballet, and classical music, until Cuba discovered that European and Canadian tourists preferred its Afro Cuban aspects. In the 60s Castro tried to destroy the Afro Cuban religions.
The speech about being Afro Latin was just Castro trying to justify his armies in Africa. They were sent their by the Soviet Union, in exchange for the massive help that Cuba received from that nation. Their only purpose was to further the interests of the Cold War parties. What happened to the Africans themselves wasn't of note. They certainly didn't go to Africa to "save" the Africans.
The notion of either elite group, Havana or Miami, accusing the other of being racist is funny, given that both have been hostile to blacks.
Valid point. It's also believed that he sent many Afro Cubans to Africa and enlisted them in armies & military as a way to reduce & kill off the Afro Cuban population of Cuba.
Those two countries will never unite. They have different origins and the value systems of these countries are at odds with each other, and this explains much of the differences between them. A few months ago I read an article where some expert from some US university commented on the differences, and something was said that it would take Haiti nearly a century to catch up to the level of development the DR is right now, and the DR situates itself practically halfway among Latin American countries.
I personally never fully understood why the Haitian government doesn't copy the legislation and development strategy that has helped the DR develop.
Oh well.... ever since that islad was unevenly split between France and Spain there have been profound differences between them. During the thousands of years the island was inhabited by the Taino amerindians it was divided into four or five kingdoms but the differences on an islandwide basis was negligible if not non-existent. Once the Spanish took over, the whole island was under Spanish rule for almost 200 years and the differences between the regions was also negligible. Once the French pirates settled on Tortuga Island and then crossed the channel to settle in northwester Santo Domingo Island and officially got the island split in 1697, the French turn their part of the island into the richest colony in the history of the world. Cap Francais (today Cap Haitien) became the richest city in America, its harbor was the busiest in all of this hemisphere surpassing even NYC in trade with Europe. The Spanish, whom continued to control most of the island, remain as a poor backwater by comparison based on cattle ranching and a completely different social system, because while on the French side something like 90% of the population was in slavery and averaged about 10 years life expectancy that required a constant importation of Africans on a yearly basis, on the Spanish side most of the population was not even enslaved and the minority that was were treated with such a mildness that most died of old age and importation of slaves was rather infrequent and few by comparison. The Spanish even had a law that automatically granted liberty to any escaped slaves of the afrench that managed to enter Spanish territory, a law that irritated the French because they wanted their slaves returned and couldn't get them back because an escaped slave from the French upon stepping on the Spanish side immediately became a subject of the king of Spain and any attempt by the French of recapturing their ex-slaves was deemed an aggression against Spain and reason enough for military action.
Anyway. To make a long story short, these countries have different origins and are on completely different playing fields for them to unite under any pretence. The Haitians probably would love to rule over the whole island, but Dominicans will never allow this for many reasons including fear that the Haitians might turn the whole island into a giant Haiti. Not to mention that the most Haitian president that ruled over the DR was Ulises Hereaux, who was half Haitian and half from Saint Thomas, but born in Puerto Plata, he basically bankrupt the country and ruined entire economic sectors by intentional economic mismanagement. You can bet that some Dominicans make a connection between his Haitian ancestry and his bankrupting of the country, seeing what the Haitians have done to their side of the island. Also, Dominicans considered the western part of the island as a complete loss ever since Spain gave that part up in the 1690s.
I think the teo countries will cooperate more with each other, but unification is a pipe dream. Dominicans will never accept Dessalines as a hero and the Haitians will never accept Duarte as their hero either.
The Spanish were just as brutal as any other colonizing imperial powers. No colonizer is better than the other. Also the Spanish side of the island had many cimarrón (maroon) communities of escaped enslaved Africans all over. In addition, many slaves from the Spanish side fled to the French side to obtain freedom as well. So it went both ways. Let's be fair when analyzing the full scope & totality of the history of the entire island. Contradiction & hypocrisy knows absolutely no bounds!
Last edited by SobreTodo; 08-08-2014 at 11:01 PM..
Valid point. It's also believed that he sent many Afro Cubans to Africa and enlisted them in armies & military as a way to reduce & kill off the Afro Cuban population of Cuba.
The Spanish were just as brutal as any other colonizing imperial powers. No colonizer is better than the other. Also the Spanish side of the island had many cimarrón (maroon) communities. In addition, many slaves from the Spanish side fled to the French side to obtain freedom. Let's be fair when analyzing the full scope & totality of the history of the entire island. Contradiction & hypocrisy knows absolutely no bounds!
I don't know where you got your information from, but it doesn't add up to the historical evidence. It also doesn't makes sense fior any slave from the Spanish part to fled to the French in search of freedom when the French never had any lws automatically granting freedom to any escaped slaves from anywhere.
The Spanish even allowed free people of color to be priests and even occupied some government offices on the Spanish side of the island, a practice that the French on the western side criticised of the Spanish and in quite a few occassions even suggested that due to the French colony being fully in control by pure whites was the reason the French part was the richest colony in the world while the Spanish part was one of the poorest provinces of Spain. Not to mention that the Spanish part of the island was mostly empty forest and the slave minority was never subjected to the streneous work that the slaves of the French were subjected to. It simply makes no sense that any slave would runaway to the French part of the island, considering everything I have already pointed out and also that that part of the island was much more densly populated.
Heck, the slaves of the Spanish even had certain legal rights that guaranteed their good treatment, because if a master abused any of his slaves, the slaves themselves had the right to denounce their master upon the authorities and ask for a transfer to a master that would treat them better or, if they had the money, the slaves could even buy their own freedom and their master by law had no choice but to accept the offer. The slaves of the French could only dream of having such a right, because a slave complaining of the mistreatment his French master gave him would only guarantee that he would be whipped into obedience. That's part of the reason when the Haitians rebelled against their masters, they were so full of resentment that they took their revenge by torturing very slowly to death of almost the entire French population. When the Haitians attempted to do the same to the whites in the Spanish side, the free people of color and their own slaves defended their white neighbors/friends/family/masters, to the complete disbelief of the Haitians.
Please excuse me for some of the typos which I'm sure exist in this post. I typed this post from my cellphone.
Those two countries will never unite. They have different origins and the value systems of these countries are at odds with each other, and this explains much of the differences between them. A few months ago I read an article where some expert from some US university commented on the differences, and something was said that it would take Haiti nearly a century to catch up to the level of development the DR is right now, and the DR situates itself practically halfway among Latin American countries.
I personally never fully understood why the Haitian government doesn't copy the legislation and development strategy that has helped the DR develop.
Oh well.... ever since that islad was unevenly split between France and Spain there have been profound differences between them. During the thousands of years the island was inhabited by the Taino amerindians it was divided into four or five kingdoms but the differences on an islandwide basis was negligible if not non-existent. Once the Spanish took over, the whole island was under Spanish rule for almost 200 years and the differences between the regions was also negligible. Once the French pirates settled on Tortuga Island and then crossed the channel to settle in northwester Santo Domingo Island and officially got the island split in 1697, the French turn their part of the island into the richest colony in the history of the world. Cap Francais (today Cap Haitien) became the richest city in America, its harbor was the busiest in all of this hemisphere surpassing even NYC in trade with Europe. The Spanish, whom continued to control most of the island, remain as a poor backwater by comparison based on cattle ranching and a completely different social system, because while on the French side something like 90% of the population was in slavery and averaged about 10 years life expectancy that required a constant importation of Africans on a yearly basis, on the Spanish side most of the population was not even enslaved and the minority that was were treated with such a mildness that most died of old age and importation of slaves was rather infrequent and few by comparison. The Spanish even had a law that automatically granted liberty to any escaped slaves of the afrench that managed to enter Spanish territory, a law that irritated the French because they wanted their slaves returned and couldn't get them back because an escaped slave from the French upon stepping on the Spanish side immediately became a subject of the king of Spain and any attempt by the French of recapturing their ex-slaves was deemed an aggression against Spain and reason enough for military action.
Anyway. To make a long story short, these countries have different origins and are on completely different playing fields for them to unite under any pretence. The Haitians probably would love to rule over the whole island, but Dominicans will never allow this for many reasons including fear that the Haitians might turn the whole island into a giant Haiti. Not to mention that the most Haitian president that ruled over the DR was Ulises Hereaux, who was half Haitian and half from Saint Thomas, but born in Puerto Plata, he basically bankrupt the country and ruined entire economic sectors by intentional economic mismanagement. You can bet that some Dominicans make a connection between his Haitian ancestry and his bankrupting of the country, seeing what the Haitians have done to their side of the island. Also, Dominicans considered the western part of the island as a complete loss ever since Spain gave that part up in the 1690s.
I think the teo countries will cooperate more with each other, but unification is a pipe dream. Dominicans will never accept Dessalines as a hero and the Haitians will never accept Duarte as their hero either.
I suggest you take a look at this. It gives a good yet interesting analysis & breakdown of the demographics & ethnographic development & character of the island on both sides as well as the linguistic aspect of things:
"A new perspective on Afro-Dominican Spanish: the Haitian connection":
Those two countries will never unite. They have different origins and the value systems of these countries are at odds with each other, and this explains much of the differences between them. A few months ago I read an article where some expert from some US university commented on the differences, and something was said that it would take Haiti nearly a century to catch up to the level of development the DR is right now, and the DR situates itself practically halfway among Latin American countries.
I personally never fully understood why the Haitian government doesn't copy the legislation and development strategy that has helped the DR develop.
Oh well.... ever since that islad was unevenly split between France and Spain there have been profound differences between them. During the thousands of years the island was inhabited by the Taino amerindians it was divided into four or five kingdoms but the differences on an islandwide basis was negligible if not non-existent. Once the Spanish took over, the whole island was under Spanish rule for almost 200 years and the differences between the regions was also negligible. Once the French pirates settled on Tortuga Island and then crossed the channel to settle in northwester Santo Domingo Island and officially got the island split in 1697, the French turn their part of the island into the richest colony in the history of the world. Cap Francais (today Cap Haitien) became the richest city in America, its harbor was the busiest in all of this hemisphere surpassing even NYC in trade with Europe. The Spanish, whom continued to control most of the island, remain as a poor backwater by comparison based on cattle ranching and a completely different social system, because while on the French side something like 90% of the population was in slavery and averaged about 10 years life expectancy that required a constant importation of Africans on a yearly basis, on the Spanish side most of the population was not even enslaved and the minority that was were treated with such a mildness that most died of old age and importation of slaves was rather infrequent and few by comparison. The Spanish even had a law that automatically granted liberty to any escaped slaves of the afrench that managed to enter Spanish territory, a law that irritated the French because they wanted their slaves returned and couldn't get them back because an escaped slave from the French upon stepping on the Spanish side immediately became a subject of the king of Spain and any attempt by the French of recapturing their ex-slaves was deemed an aggression against Spain and reason enough for military action.
Anyway. To make a long story short, these countries have different origins and are on completely different playing fields for them to unite under any pretence. The Haitians probably would love to rule over the whole island, but Dominicans will never allow this for many reasons including fear that the Haitians might turn the whole island into a giant Haiti. Not to mention that the most Haitian president that ruled over the DR was Ulises Hereaux, who was half Haitian and half from Saint Thomas, but born in Puerto Plata, he basically bankrupt the country and ruined entire economic sectors by intentional economic mismanagement. You can bet that some Dominicans make a connection between his Haitian ancestry and his bankrupting of the country, seeing what the Haitians have done to their side of the island. Also, Dominicans considered the western part of the island as a complete loss ever since Spain gave that part up in the 1690s.
I think the teo countries will cooperate more with each other, but unification is a pipe dream. Dominicans will never accept Dessalines as a hero and the Haitians will never accept Duarte as their hero either.
Ulises Hereaux was Dominican born & raised. He may have had a Haitian father and a mother from the then Danish Caribbean islands, or more particularly Saint Thomas, however, MANY presidents and various types of leaders in/of the DR have had Haitian ancestry (of all types of races & race mixtures).
Rafael Trujillo had Haitian ancestry from the mixed race elite through his maternal grandmother. Joaquin Balaguer had Haitian ancestry as well too.
So I'm not sure if having Haitian ancestry contributes to the incompetence of an individual. After all many fellow Dominicans did elect him & chose to & wanted him in power or allowed him in the leading role & position of President of DR for several years.
Also if negrophobia or anti blackness was so strong in DR then why did DR elect Ulises Hereaux? And if DR was so anti Haitian, why did they elect many presidents that had Haitian ancestral ties?
I don't know where you got your information from, but it doesn't add up to the historical evidence. It also doesn't makes sense fior any slave from the Spanish part to fled to the French in search of freedom when the French never had any lws automatically granting freedom to any escaped slaves from anywhere.
The Spanish even allowed free people of color to be priests and even occupied some government offices on the Spanish side of the island, a practice that the French on the western side criticised of the Spanish and in quite a few occassions even suggested that due to the French colony being fully in control by pure whites was the reason the French part was the richest colony in the world while the Spanish part was one of the poorest provinces of Spain. Not to mention that the Spanish part of the island was mostly empty forest and the slave minority was never subjected to the streneous work that the slaves of the French were subjected to. It simply makes no sense that any slave would runaway to the French part of the island, considering everything I have already pointed out and also that that part of the island was much more densly populated.
Heck, the slaves of the Spanish even had certain legal rights that guaranteed their good treatment, because if a master abused any of his slaves, the slaves themselves had the right to denounce their master upon the authorities and ask for a transfer to a master that would treat them better or, if they had the money, the slaves could even buy their own freedom and their master by law had no choice but to accept the offer. The slaves of the French could only dream of having such a right, because a slave complaining of the mistreatment his French master gave him would only guarantee that he would be whipped into obedience. That's part of the reason when the Haitians rebelled against their masters, they were so full of resentment that they took their revenge by torturing very slowly to death of almost the entire French population. When the Haitians attempted to do the same to the whites in the Spanish side, the free people of color and their own slaves defended their white neighbors/friends/family/masters, to the complete disbelief of the Haitians.
Please excuse me for some of the typos which I'm sure exist in this post. I typed this post from my cellphone.
The Spanish were just as brutal as any other colonizing imperial powers. No colonizer is better or worse than the other. All colonizers used the same tactics to one up & outdo each other. Also the Spanish side of the island had many cimarrón (maroon) communities of escaped enslaved Africans all over. In addition, many slaves from the Spanish side fled to the French side to obtain freedom as well. So it went both ways. It is kind of like the concept of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". French would give escaped slaves of the Spanish freedom when slaves crossed over into French territory as a way to defend French dominance & control & to ward off and protect French and French subjects from Spanish & others. British gave lots of slaves of Spanish freedom and would give any slave that was baptized before or upon arrival to the colonies their freedom. All of the European colonies had the same ruling & manipulative & manipulation techniques, to achieve & maintain dominance, powers, supremacy, & wealth, monetary gain, & profit.
Lots of historical evidence actually suggests, shows, & proves that the British & French were nicer & better & that the Spanish were very mean, evil, & the most brutal & the worst of all, however that's neither here nor there because ALL of the colonial powers partook in the very same tactics.
Also, what about the fact that the Spanish institutionalized race, racism, colorism, & castas in the New World.
What about the concept "limpieza de sangre" (cleanliness of blood). Also how do you explain The Spanish Inquisition & it's brutal consequences & immense persecution of Jews, & non Catholics. The Spanish Inquisition was eventually & subsequently carried over into ALL Spanish colonies.
Also if the Spanish were so nice & good to its subjects or those people that they colonized, how do you explain the imposition & enforcement of Slave Codes, Black Codes, Codigos Negros in Spanish colonies? What about the imposition of sumptuary laws in Spanish colonies, and things like the tingón laws? If Spanish treated their subjects or those that they colonized, Spanish wouldn't & shouldn't have imposed such, don't ya think?
Also, Spanish had extremely harsh laws & punishments for slaves that escaped from their captors, traders, & masters, and owners. Escaped slaves in Spanish colonies would have their ears cut off, they could be castrated, whipped severely, sodomized, raped. In many cases, escaped slaves that were found or captured again would be fed alive to dogs and other animals to die, in pain. Some escaped slaves even in many cases were boiled alive, to the point of painful imminent death.
All of the so called "good qualities" or "leniency" that you pointed out in the Spanish colonies also existed & was carried out in the colonial & structural dynamics & characterization of French colonies, British colonies, & Dutch colonies, as well as Portuguese colonies among others. So therefore no colonial power was better or worse than the other. All the stuff you pointed out in Spanish colonies is duals noted and can be found in other colonial powers like the British, French, Dutch, Portuguese. I'll dig into my files to get links & more documents (if they still work or are available) to prove & show this. In fact all colonial powers collaborated with each other when necessary, because above it all, it was money that was the motivating factor. Lots of trading of goods & commodities throughout the globe. It was all a global trade.
Heck even in the colonial British colonies & after colonialism, slavery was not based on race. For example, in USA slavery was not based on race! It was based on matrilinealism.
Many people have the misconception that slavery was based on race. It wasn't. Slavery helped promulgate racism because the biggest pool of slaves was coming from Africa, but slave status was NOT determined by racial assignation but by matrilineal birthright. If your mother was a slave, so were you. Regardless if you were legally White or not.
Let's be fair when analyzing the full scope & totality of the history of the entire island and all global nuances in general. Contradiction & hypocrisy knows absolutely no bounds!
Last edited by SobreTodo; 08-09-2014 at 12:42 AM..
Also, one thing I have noticed throough the years is that the island splits in two in moat theme maps. It doesn't matter what the theme is, whether its economic development, language, health, tree cover, you name it; more often than not the island finds itself with two different shades. In a way, that border is one of the most real in the world because even if you do a map of most themes without highlighting the borders of any country, more often than not you'll know where the border is on this island by the different shades between the two countries. In fact, you can even make out the border by looking at photos taken from outer space. Not many borders are so pwrsistent as this one.
At the time of the Spanish Encounter with New World, Spanish culture represented the fusion of Sephardic Jewish, Moorish, & Celtic-Iberian elements. The Reconquest of Spain, known as the Spanish Inquisition, with it's final and definitive expulsion of Jews and Moors from Spain in 1492, occurred only about a month before Columbus began his first voyage; one destination of the Jewish & Moorish flight from Spain was the New World. The first settlement of the Spanish in the Americas was La Navidad on the northwestern shore of Hispaniola; destroyed by the Native Americans, today the archaeological site is a part of Haiti. The later Spanish colony further east was called Santo Domingo & was first settled by peasants from Extremadura & Andalucía & Jews & Moors who fled Spain during the Spanish Inquisition; evidence of Jewish & Moorish influence in Hispaniola appears in architecture, dialect, & the oldest musical styles & genres. In the late 1600s, an important wave of immigrants arrived from the Canary Islands.
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