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Old 10-06-2013, 03:43 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,322,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
I think they can be considered immigrants, even though all are US citizens and there's virtually nothing (other than tight pockets in some) stopping them from moving to the mainland if they truly want to. But PR is an unincorporated territory of the USA and technically, whatever is unincorporated isn't quite part of the country. That's the reason PR has the option of joining the USA or going free, because they are not quite free but not quite joined either.

They have a foot in and a foot out.
I can see your point here. Thanks

 
Old 10-06-2013, 03:50 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,322,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadigmizedFactions View Post
I've always been curious as to what is a typical looking Mexican. Perhaps I'm too open minded or am against stereotypes. I also know several Mexicans with different phenotypes. Even among the looks of ppl that others want to stereotype as looking Mexican, those group of stereotypical Mexicans don't even look alike.
I understand being afriad of stereotypes. Our society has made us fear that word to the point that we tell our eyes they're lying when we see something. Where I currently am, Chula Vista, CA, there are Mexican-Americans, Mexican immigrants, both legal and illegal and there are Mexicans who come across the border to work or shop etc. Despite the fact that stereotype is taboo, all have a stereotypical look and many times it can be impossible to tell the above statuses just by looking at them, the exception being if they're "ghetto", yes another stereotype but it is what it is. There are those who look different, however let me assure you that these tend to be the exception to the rule. I too have known Mexicans with blond hair and blue eyes and even German surnames but again, not typical of what one can expect. When people on the west coast say "they look Hispanic", what they really are saying is "I think they're Mexican". Remember, Mexican is a catch all term applied to anyone with Mexican decent, regardless if they're native born or not.
 
Old 10-06-2013, 03:54 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,322,733 times
Reputation: 9048
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadigmizedFactions View Post
Fillipinos, Samoans, and Guam, and Equitoreal Guinea can be considered Hispanics and Latinos.

Hell, Haitians can be included as Latino or Latin rather.
By extension if we really want to use Latin correctly, so can Quebecois. Guamanians like to be called Chamorros BTW
 
Old 10-06-2013, 04:00 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,322,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
Hispanics lag behind Anglophone Whites in every single measure of living standards. They do not control any major industries, political parties, or other major cultural/economic/political institution. Since they are marginal when it comes to political and economic power, they will have to assimilate or risk being marginalized, that means they have to learn English and also have to adopt American culture. So in essence, the changes will be rather superficial (like food and cultural appropriation by the mainstream) and Hispanics who do not assimilate will continue to be marginalized and continue to suffer from discrimination.
You've never been to California I see. I have lived in both Northern and Southern California. In both places I have shopped at Mexican grocery stores where the announcements on the PA system are in Spanish. I've gone to ask for help and the person I chose had to get someone else because they didn't speak English. It's entirely possible for a Spanish speaking person to live in CA and not speak English. Trust me on this one. they only English they really need to know are words that appear on traffic signs if they are driving in this country.
 
Old 10-06-2013, 04:02 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Azteca View Post
That's been proven false in California, New Mexico, AND Texas, you don't need to assimilate, you simply need the numbers. You realize that in California, New Mexico, and Texas, Hispanic owned businesses are increasing right? In fact increasing percentage wise more than any other demographic. There's no need to assimilate their, the numbers have proven otherwise. Discrimination against Latinos only goes against them when they don't know English, most Latinos are bilingual, an undoubted bonus. Not to mention, the Hispanic purchasing power has already eclipsed the black purchasing power, and is increasing percentage wise, again, more than any other demographic. Mexican Americans specifically, being the bulk of that purchasing power.


Furthermore, the average age of Hispanics is almost half of that of whites. 27 for Hispanics, and 41 for whites. More specifically, Mexican Americans are on average 25, even lower than the average for the Hispanic in general. That in itself means less in wage, education, and power. A younger demographic will never be as powerful as an older more established one. That's just common sense.

In places like San Antonio, Spanish is spoken commonly, crime is low, and the local government is largely Hispanic/pro Hispanic. San Antonio is over 60% Hispanic, an overwhelming majority of which are Mexican American.



In all honesty this hispanophobia stuff is just fear mongering from the right that want your votes, and what better way to form a bond between one another than to set someone apart from you two and share a hatred for that person/people? It's simple divide and conquer.
^This. Repped you
 
Old 10-06-2013, 04:07 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,322,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
Legally speaking Puerto Rico has "evolved" into an incorporated territory with the passing of Law 600 or the Puerto Rico Federal Relations Act in 1952. It possess the same level of autonomy as a state of the Union but because of it's fiscal autonomy (exemption from Federal income taxes for all except those employed by the Federal government) Congress has chosen to not to apply the full rights of integration (the presidential vote, voting representation in Congress, etc).

How does one immigrate within their own nation? Does one immigrate from California to Idaho?
This, I did not know. Interesting.
 
Old 10-06-2013, 04:11 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 10,085,987 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Inquiring minds would like to know. Even more evidence of the Anglo American's resistance to consider us "Real Americans"
Im not sure if it's racism or sheer ignorance. Believe it or not, in 2013 there are still people who think Puerto Rico is part of Mexico ...
 
Old 10-06-2013, 08:16 PM
 
308 posts, read 499,220 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
Hispanics lag behind Anglophone Whites in every single measure of living standards. They do not control any major industries, political parties, or other major cultural/economic/political institution. Since they are marginal when it comes to political and economic power, they will have to assimilate or risk being marginalized, that means they have to learn English and also have to adopt American culture. So in essence, the changes will be rather superficial (like food and cultural appropriation by the mainstream) and Hispanics who do not assimilate will continue to be marginalized and continue to suffer from discrimination.
That's nonsense. Look at many White Cubans.

Your argument could also apply to white (NON Hispanic) immigrants.
 
Old 10-06-2013, 08:35 PM
 
308 posts, read 499,220 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Azteca View Post
Yes, George Lopez has a majority of European genetic ancestry, however that is irrelevant to the question at hand. That being: What does a Mexican look like?

I answered that, and the answer essentially is an Amerindian. Mexican Mestizos look very much Amerindian, as the Amerindian genes are dominant by nature (as proven by George Lopez). Though it's true that Mexican Americans are more on the European side, in Mexico Mestizos are more on the Indian side. The average Mexican Mestizo is 55% Native.
But even among Mexicans that have ambiguous or stereotypical looks, not all of these Mexicans will have that same look.

I find that the stereotypical Mexican look to many people who don't know any better is essentially a look that is ambiguous or does not look black nor white or doesn't fit into one specific racial group or another. So it's viewed as an "other" race, sometimes it's even accepted as WHITE.
 
Old 10-06-2013, 08:46 PM
 
308 posts, read 499,220 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
If Hispanic migration and growth in the US is like any other migration to the US from prior waves (Germans, Irish, slave Africans), the usual progression is typically:

1) "Oh that's cute, there's token presence" (i.e. pandering and not really a "threat" to the status quo)
2) "Someone has to keep them in their place!" (i.e. outright hostility bordering on insanity)
3) "Meh" (Acceptance and the end product: melting into the pot)

The product of migration to the USA is that the migrants typically, for a generation or two, stay with their own and don't venture too far outside their home cultures. The braver elements of the second generation and typical third generation folks are totally immersed in American culture and it absorbs them and they abandon to some extent the home culture's norms, and many times, marry outside of it.

So the real question is "what flavors will the Hispanic ingredients add to the stew that is American culture?"

The answer is pretty hard to come by, though I can think of some things: truly authentic Mexican and SA cooking. The local chains of "Mexican" food restaurants run by gringos peddle some Americanized bastardization of the luxurious home style cooking known as Mexican. In my area of Seattle, just go to an Azteca, then eat at a small mom and pop shop or a food truck and compare. You'll never step food in Azteca again.

So, goodness in getting more "real" hispanic cooking is in order.

The other thing I could see is a more nuanced look at Mexican/US history. Typically, US history glazes over the fact we fought a war of aggression against Mexico to capture territory. We only stopped because if we had conquered Mexico, there'd be millions of "wetbacks" (their words, not mine) ready to upset the WASP establishment. So they backed off. I'm sure we'll see more revisions to US history books if we're lucky.

And if we're also lucky, a more honest celebration of Cinco de Mayo. To be honest though I'm not holding my breath. Just look at St. Patrick's Day. A day of celebration ostensibly of St. Patrick converting the Irish to Christianity being bastardized by historical racist overtones (namely, the Irish are drunks) to perpetuate said racist hackneyed preconceptions. In other words: St. Patrick's day is nothing more than an excuse to get drunk at noon, and I don't expect Cinco de Mayo to be any better off in the future.

In the end, the best thing that will happen is probably the continued chipping away at the American psyche of "brown/black skinned people = dangerous/bad" to eventually "everyone's human, big whup."
People in Mexico don't even celebrate Cinco de Mayo lol. That's a day in Mexico celebrating Mexicans fighting off French colonizers and French conquests of Puebla Mexico.

The USA markets Cinco de Mayo as a way to make money. It has nothing to do with what it actually truly derives from.

As for your mention and claims that USA had wars of aggression to steal lands and territory from Mexico, let's also not be naïve and hypocritical and forget that Mexico and lands north of Modern day Mexico were colonies and lands "belonging" to Spain and even France.

Also Mexico has fought other Central Americam nations for lands such as Belize and Guatemala, and even the Yucatan region.

So it's a two way street. Each nation can point the finger at the other. It's all a bunch of political semantics.

Last edited by ParadigmizedFactions; 10-06-2013 at 09:57 PM..
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