U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Americas
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-11-2013, 10:13 PM
 
1,266 posts, read 2,477,106 times
Reputation: 1235

Advertisements

I have been wondering why some Italians chose to go to U.S and why some chose Argentina. Italian immigrants moved to these two countries around the same time.

And also who is more culturally close to Italy and Italians today? Italian Argentines or Italian Americans?

Who was accepted and assimilated more easily?

Did Italians migrate to Argentina because of its similar topography and climate to Italy, and because they knew they were going to be assimilate and feel more comfortable around Spanish Argentines who share more attributes than the Anglo Saxons?

Did Italians who chose America migrate because of more economic opportunity? I read some Italians in southern Italy chose American to take advantage of the prohibition era and supply alcohol which of course opened a wider profit opportunity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-11-2013, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,231,932 times
Reputation: 36087
In those days, people emigrated because much of Italy was dreadfully poor and the people were destitute, and went wherever they could go. Some also went to Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela, Uruguay and Canada and to a lesser extent, to every other Latin American country that they could figure out a way to get to. Once a few Italians got established in a certain country, others would follow knowing that there were already Italians there to help them to get started in their new country.

However, it is also true that learning Spanish was easier than English for Italian emigrants, and it was easier to adjust to a Mediterranean lifestlye, and this made South American an attractive destination. But there were also plenty of German, Irish, and other non-Mediterranean immigants coming to South America.

Last edited by jtur88; 10-11-2013 at 11:53 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-12-2013, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Toronto
348 posts, read 558,276 times
Reputation: 266
Late nineteenth century, and early twentieth century immigration to Argentina and Brazil was conducted through the aid of "agents" who operated at the behest of local South American governments.

What led a lot of these people to Argentina WAS wealth, when a lot of people made enormous fortunes, and Argentina's fortunes rivaled America's.

Before the post WW2 wave of mass migration of Brazilian NorthEasterners to Sao Paulo,
that city also had a huge Italian population (by birth and origin), and even today, the established Paulista bourgeoisie is hugely Italian, by origin.

Buenos Aires is probably the most "Italian" city in the world, and Sao Paulo would come in second. If you do your numbers and percentages, you'll come to a figure that makes the Greater Buenos Aires region, numerically more Italian than Rome.

Seeing the end of slavery, Brazil's government actively recruited immigrants from the Austro- Hungarian Empire, which at that time included a huge chunk of Northern Italy.

Many were brought in as manual labour, intended to replace the freed slaves.
Within decades, they were the most successful ethnic group on the continent, and even today, the most successful industrialized micro-regions of Brazil are overwhelmingly inhabited by descendants of Italians (and Germans, Ukrainians, Arabs) in Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina and the entire state of Sao Paulo.

While the Italians in South America more often descend from Northeners, especially Venetians and Friulians,
North America received a lot of Southern Italians.

Also note that Argentina is an overwhelmingly Italian country, by origin,
while Italians in North America are just one of many large ethnic groups which migrated to the US and Canada.

The local definition of a resident of Buenos Aires (commonly called a Porteno)
is "an Italian, who speaks Spanish, yet really thinks that he's a British lord".

(Yeah, Buenos Aires has its own "Ginos" and they're not an insignificant minority. Instead, they've come to define the traditional image image of a Porteno dandy).

Even the Spanish accent and vocabulary of Argentina owes a lot to the Italian origins of its speakers.

ps. don't ignore the story of Garibaldi and Anita, and true revolutionary and love story which begins in the hills and pampas of Brazil's south, and leads to the creation of modern Italy as a nation-state.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2013, 09:34 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,119 posts, read 23,634,230 times
Reputation: 11611
I believe Argentina had a lot higher proportion of Italian immigrants from the central and northern portions of Italy while the US was predominantly southern. And until really recent times, Italian-Argentines were generally slimmer and more attractive than their American counterparts though in the past several years they've been catching up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2013, 10:11 PM
 
1,266 posts, read 2,477,106 times
Reputation: 1235
What do Italian Argentines think of Italian Americans? I know through the global American media they might have seen several Soprano-like mafia films and perhaps the pop show "Jersey Shore"

I know in the U.S we know very little about Italian Argentines.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-14-2013, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
9,522 posts, read 9,402,418 times
Reputation: 6675
At Sam's Club years ago, I remember seeing "Parmesan" cheese made in Argentina.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggianito

I always find it interesting to read about someone from Argentina or Brazil who has a Spanish or Portuguese first name but a last name of non-Iberian origins (ex: Cristina Kirchner, Dilma Rousseff, Jorge Bergoglio - better known as Pope Francis). I think the wealthiest ethnic groups in these countries are actually those of Middle Eastern origin.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-14-2013, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Buenos Aires and La Plata, ARG
2,278 posts, read 1,755,728 times
Reputation: 1514
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
I believe Argentina had a lot higher proportion of Italian immigrants from the central and northern portions of Italy while the US was predominantly southern. And until really recent times, Italian-Argentines were generally slimmer and more attractive than their American counterparts though in the past several years they've been catching up.
Regions of origin of the Italians in Argentina (only between 1876-1915)

Piedmont 16.9%
Calabria 13.2%
Sicily 11.1%
Lombardy 10.4%
Marche 8.2%
Campania 7.5%
Veneto 7.2%
Abruzzo/Molise 3.2%

So:

South: 35%
North: 42,7%
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-14-2013, 07:49 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,119 posts, read 23,634,230 times
Reputation: 11611
Quote:
Originally Posted by marlaver View Post
Regions of origin of the Italians in Argentina (only between 1876-1915)

Piedmont 16.9%
Calabria 13.2%
Sicily 11.1%
Lombardy 10.4%
Marche 8.2%
Campania 7.5%
Veneto 7.2%
Abruzzo/Molise 3.2%

So:

South: 35%
North: 42,7%
Wikipedia's article on Italian-Americans cites 80% from Southern Italy--didn't really dig through the citations for the source though.

So yea, pretty accurate overall; Italian-Americans are mostly from the South. Probably more accurate to say Argentina had a greater distribution from different parts of Italy, but with more coming from the north.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-14-2013, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
830 posts, read 2,073,793 times
Reputation: 546
It has to be noted that in Argentina there really is no concept of "Italian-Argentinian" (or "ítalo-argentino" for that matter) in the same way as "Italian-American" in the US.

If an Argentinian is a descendant of Italians (as is usually the case) he/she isn't considered an "Italian-Argentinian", but just a plain Argentinian (this holds true for other originis too).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-14-2013, 10:58 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 92,268,009 times
Reputation: 30387
While many people have provided great history lesson here, one OP question remains unansweredw.

Which country did Italians retain their heritage the most today?

I'm married to an Italian American, but I can't answer because I don't know any Argentinians.

Does anyone have a familiarity with all three to provide insight? Italians. American Italians. Argentinians.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Americas
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top