Was Cuba really a developed country relatively pre Castro? (life, people, speaking)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Many would say the island was corrupt prior to Castro's revolution, but those who oppose the revolution attempt to have others think that Cuba was an economic frontier.
Many would say the island was corrupt prior to Castro's revolution, but those who oppose the revolution attempt to have others think that Cuba was an economic frontier.
Cuba was a common destination for many foreigners including U.S. Americans for a long time pre Castro.
It still is. Our government just chooses to keep us from going there because of some archaic Cold War policy.
I'm aware of that. Many U.S. Americans still go there. Cuba and USA are strange bed love partners and are working with each other behind the scenes if you really think about it, especially with the wet foot dry foot policy and other aspects.
Many would say the island was corrupt prior to Castro's revolution, but those who oppose the revolution attempt to have others think that Cuba was an economic frontier.
I have a very good Cuban friend who is a rabid anti Castro exile. So I did some research. There were two Cuba's. The western part which was highly developed, indeed almost on par with Italy in the 50s (which you would remember was hardly the highly developed nation that it is today) The eastern part was equivalent to Jamaica.
Cuba was a major tourist destination. But what I discovered was by the late 50s the majority of the private ownership was in Cuban hands. There was a highly developed and highly sophisticated elite, and Cuba had the most advanced media in Latin America, as well as a well developed financial sector. The sugar industry was no longer substantially in US hands.
Cuba also had a huge and well educated middle class (hence their tremendous success in the USA).
BUT. Oriente was poor and neglected with very high illiteracy rates, maybe as high as 50%. While the urban and unionized workers commanded high wages, there was rampant poverty in the rural areas.
So was Cuba developed? By the standards of the 50s it was as indeed only as the USA, Canada and Argentina were ahead. Was it the paradise that many older exiles describe? No. Incpme distribution wasn't good and the rural areas were impoverished and the urban areas did have slums (as indeed they did in the USA).
Cuba had a highly diversified economy with a thriving agricultural sector (not just sugar), heavy industry, and a modern service sector.
As to race. Yes Cuba did have some mild levels of racial segregation, though I think in some towns it approached US levels. Were blacks oppressed? Well to quote a Cuban the condition of blacks was clearly PRE civil rights, even though it was clearly not Jim Crow. I think that Havana might have been like New York, definitely not Miami. Segregation was by custom, not by law.
Unlike the DR and PR Cuba definitely did have very distinct ethnoracial categories and sub categories.
The whites, the largest (75%) were divided into the Andalucian (and other southern Spanish) and the Canarians, pretty much like the other Spanish islands. But there was a large contingent of people from northern Spain, who were quite different. They arrived from the mid 19th to the early 20th century. They form the nucleus of the longer established exile communities in the USA.
The mulatos accounted for around 13%, and the blacks 11%. The blacks were divided into the local blacks brought in as slaves, and black immigrants from Haiti and the English speaking Caribbean (mainly, but not exclusively Jamaicans). Then there were Chinese and Jews which accounted for the rest.
One thing that is different from the DR (and Panama) elites in Cuba didn't peddle a notion of "blackness" tied to undesirable black aliens. Cuban blacks also had very sharp political black identities, and indeed many were involved in the numerous Marcus Garvey clubs. They had their own social clubs, as did the mulatos, to counter social exclusion by the whites. There was a black/mulato professional class (contrary to Castroite propaganda) and indeed the 1953 census showed that 15% of the doctors were either black or mulato (vs their 24% representation in the overall population). So no blacks weren't all maids until Castro "saved" them.
So it turns out that their is some truth to the narrative of pre Castro Cuba s told by both the Castroites an the exiles. Problem is that neither tell the whole truth.
I have a very good Cuban friend who is a rabid anti Castro exile. So I did some research. There were two Cuba's. The western part which was highly developed, indeed almost on par with Italy in the 50s (which you would remember was hardly the highly developed nation that it is today) The eastern part was equivalent to Jamaica.
Cuba was a major tourist destination. But what I discovered was by the late 50s the majority of the private ownership was in Cuban hands. There was a highly developed and highly sophisticated elite, and Cuba had the most advanced media in Latin America, as well as a well developed financial sector. The sugar industry was no longer substantially in US hands.
Cuba also had a huge and well educated middle class (hence their tremendous success in the USA).
BUT. Oriente was poor and neglected with very high illiteracy rates, maybe as high as 50%. While the urban and unionized workers commanded high wages, there was rampant poverty in the rural areas.
So was Cuba developed? By the standards of the 50s it was as indeed only as the USA, Canada and Argentina were ahead. Was it the paradise that many older exiles describe? No. Incpme distribution wasn't good and the rural areas were impoverished and the urban areas did have slums (as indeed they did in the USA).
Cuba had a highly diversified economy with a thriving agricultural sector (not just sugar), heavy industry, and a modern service sector.
As to race. Yes Cuba did have some mild levels of racial segregation, though I think in some towns it approached US levels. Were blacks oppressed? Well to quote a Cuban the condition of blacks was clearly PRE civil rights, even though it was clearly not Jim Crow. I think that Havana might have been like New York, definitely not Miami. Segregation was by custom, not by law.
Unlike the DR and PR Cuba definitely did have very distinct ethnoracial categories and sub categories.
The whites, the largest (75%) were divided into the Andalucian (and other southern Spanish) and the Canarians, pretty much like the other Spanish islands. But there was a large contingent of people from northern Spain, who were quite different. They arrived from the mid 19th to the early 20th century. They form the nucleus of the longer established exile communities in the USA.
The mulatos accounted for around 13%, and the blacks 11%. The blacks were divided into the local blacks brought in as slaves, and black immigrants from Haiti and the English speaking Caribbean (mainly, but not exclusively Jamaicans). Then there were Chinese and Jews which accounted for the rest.
One thing that is different from the DR (and Panama) elites in Cuba didn't peddle a notion of "blackness" tied to undesirable black aliens. Cuban blacks also had very sharp political black identities, and indeed many were involved in the numerous Marcus Garvey clubs. They had their own social clubs, as did the mulatos, to counter social exclusion by the whites. There was a black/mulato professional class (contrary to Castroite propaganda) and indeed the 1953 census showed that 15% of the doctors were either black or mulato (vs their 24% representation in the overall population). So no blacks weren't all maids until Castro "saved" them.
So it turns out that their is some truth to the narrative of pre Castro Cuba s told by both the Castroites an the exiles. Problem is that neither tell the whole truth.
Actually the situation of race relations in Cuba resembled Panama in regards to perception of it's black population. In Cuba, many white elites talked about how blackness was confined to Haitians and Jamaicans due to many black laborers from other islands and nations coming to Cuba.
And Cuba had Jim Crow like segregation. Cuba was extremely racist.
And most Afro Cubans didn't support Marcus Garvey or join his clubs or racist ideologies. Most Afro Cubans, especially one's of success and elite took more of a WEB DuBois approach to things and sought to integrate and assimilate and be proudly Cuban while at the same time being black, mulatto, pardo, or person of color etc.
Marcus Garvey was not very fond of Afro Cubans. Keep in mind that Garvey did not like Latin blacks or Catholicism and felt their culture was devil like etc and went against his views. He also was not a big fan of African Americans.
Marcus Garvey had self hating hypocritical complex. He also didn't like light skinned and mixed individuals very much.
Garvey was more interested in working with the Afro Caribbean diaspora particularly those from English speaking countries.
Actually the situation of race relations in Cuba resembled Panama in regards to perception of it's black population. In Cuba, many white elites talked about how blackness was confined to Haitians and Jamaicans due to many black laborers from other islands and nations coming to Cuba.
And Cuba had Jim Crow like segregation. Cuba was extremely racist.
And most Afro Cubans didn't support Marcus Garvey or join his clubs or racist ideologies. Most Afro Cubans, especially one's of success and elite took more of a WEB DuBois approach to things and sought to integrate and assimilate and be proudly Cuban while at the same time being black, mulatto, pardo, or person of color etc.
Marcus Garvey was not very fond of Afro Cubans. Keep in mind that Garvey did not like Latin blacks or Catholicism and felt their culture was devil like etc and went against his views. He also was not a big fan of African Americans.
Marcus Garvey had self hating hypocritical complex. He also didn't like light skinned and mixed individuals very much.
Garvey was more interested in working with the Afro Caribbean diaspora particularly those from English speaking countries.
Most blacks in Cuba have no connections to the British Caribbean. Only a small fraction were laborers. Besides, its ruthless racism towards blacks predate the importation of West Indian laborers.
Most blacks in Cuba have no connections to the British Caribbean. Only a small fraction were laborers. Besides, its ruthless racism towards blacks predate the importation of West Indian laborers.
None of what you said adds or takes away from what I was stating. Read the comment I was responding to.
I was pointing out that many in Cuba did and still say that Afro Cubans are not really Cuban and that they are mostly Haitians and Jamaicans and that Afro Cubans are not true Cubans because they are from Haiti and Jamaica.
Yes most Cuban blacks are descendants of the more than 2 million slaves imported to Cuba between 1492 to 1886.
And I just said that racism has always existed in Cuba. I was just pointing out that Cuba had Jim Crow like policies and strong segregation for much of it's history. Castro tried to turn it around but blacks and ppl of color still lag behind compared to whites etc. There is also lots of classism and class inequality,
And there are still Jamaican and Haitian and other Anglophone Caribbean descendants still living in Cuba.
Many Cubans refer to some blacks as "Palestineans" to signify if they are blacks of Jamaican and/or Haitian descent.
Many ppl are ignorant because most Afro Cubans descend from Spanish speaking Hispanicized Africans that came during the colonial period.
None of what you said adds or takes away from what I was stating. Read the comment I was responding to.
I was pointing out that many in Cuba did and still say that Afro Cubans are not really Cuban and that they are mostly Haitians and Jamaicans and that Afro Cubans are not true Cubans because they are from Haiti and Jamaica.
Yes most Cuban blacks are descendants of the more than 2 million slaves imported to Cuba between 1492 to 1886.
And I just said that racism has always existed in Cuba. I was just pointing out that Cuba had Jim Crow like policies and strong segregation for much of it's history. Castro tried to turn it around but blacks and ppl of color still lag behind compared to whites etc. There is also lots of classism and class inequality,
And there are still Jamaican and Haitian and other Anglophone Caribbean descendants still living in Cuba.
Many Cubans refer to some blacks as "Palestineans" to signify if they are blacks of Jamaican and/or Haitian descent.
Many ppl are ignorant because most Afro Cubans descend from Spanish speaking Hispanicized Africans that came during the colonial period.
I usually agree with your posts, but this is utter BS. Please cite a source or a substantial example.
Afro Cubans have been part of Cuba's identity since it was a colony of Spain's. Yes, it's true that many whites did deem blacks as second class citizens, but they did not in any shape of form associated them with Jamaicans/Haitians. Cuba was always a creolized country in all of its memorable history. When it gained independence from Spain, racial harmony was a priority in Cuban identity. Antonio Maceo was an Afro Cuban hero.
I'm well aware of West Indian laborers that were recruited by US sugar mills as I'm a descendant of them.
Last edited by knowledgeiskey; 12-08-2013 at 02:15 PM..
And, all the propaganda ignores a couple of things:
Fidel Castro was a result of an advanced education system as he was a qualified lawyer.
Che Guevara was a doctor!
How and why did they revolt against a system that gave them such opportunities in life?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
