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If every example that anyone can think of in history isn't actually socialism. What is your basis for your political views?
I never said that, I gave you the example of the Haudenosaunee, they didn't call themselves socialist back then because that was a foreign political movement that wasn't around during most of their history at that point, same with other nations indigenous to Abya Yala that had similar economics. But I can say it was socialistic. In Europe prior to feudal expropriation a lot of land were commons ie. land held in common by the people that worked it, so socialism. I mean I'm not gonna go exhaustive on this but you get the picture.
In the modern world we have many socialist institutions ranging from small worker owned businesses dotted throughout to large dominant socialist corporations like the Mondragon Corporation which is a network of co-operatives in the Basque country. Again not exhaustive, it's getting late
I never said that, I gave you the example of the Haudenosaunee, they didn't call themselves socialist back then because that was a foreign political movement that wasn't around during most of their history at that point, same with other nations indigenous to Abya Yala that had similar economics. But I can say it was socialistic. In Europe prior to feudal expropriation a lot of land were commons ie. land held in common by the people that worked it, so socialism. I mean I'm not gonna go exhaustive on this but you get the picture.
In the modern world we have many socialist institutions ranging from small worker owned businesses dotted throughout to large dominant socialist corporations like the Mondragon Corporation which is a network of co-operatives in the Basque country. Again not exhaustive, it's getting late
I still don't see how Socialism could possible work on a large scale. I don't think any country like the United Sates could possible succeed going further and further towards Socialism. Hell, we have been over the years and have since been spiraling downward.
I used to live in the UK before Thatcher came in. The joke was "will the last person leaving please turn off the light". The UK in the 70s was a hopelessly demoralized country plagued with strikes and an increasingly low morale. Indeed the vulgarity of the punk rockers pretty much describes the mood of the country then. The British middle class were fleeing that nation in droves, many headed to Australia, Canada, the USA, or other parts of the EU.
Thatcher was a curse but she broke the back of the "Old School Tie" syndrome. The notion that every one must stay in their class and not aspire to do better. The best days were under Tony Blair, before he fell in love with George Bush that is.
probably they needed some reform, after all GB lost most of its colonies, but GB had very good salaries, strong labour unions, etc. Actually better than in most European countries.
It's a fact that because of Tatcher's policies, the working class got poorer. GB could have reformed the same way France, Belgium, Germany, the Scandinavian countries did, without creating a big gap between the rich and the poor.
Punk rock, was just a fashion statement.
probably they needed some reform, after all GB lost most of its colonies, but GB had very good salaries, strong labour unions, etc. Actually better than in most European countries.
It's a fact that because of Tatcher's policies, the working class got poorer. GB could have reformed the same way France, Belgium, Germany, the Scandinavian countries did, without creating a big gap between the rich and the poor.
Punk rock, was just a fashion statement.
The road to Socialism leads nowhere, except to develop a population that become dependant upon the goverment, not self. So, how is Socialism working out for Greece, Spain, Portugal? Germany backed off from the expressway to Socialism and see how much better they are doing?
I still don't see how Socialism could possible work on a large scale. I don't think any country like the United Sates could possible succeed going further and further towards Socialism. Hell, we have been over the years and have since been spiraling downward.
The United States is not going further into socialism at all, maybe going further into neofeudalism, but socialism definitely no.
And socialism on a large scale? That's easy a bunch of co-ops and communes, participating in a market economy or whatever suits them.
The road to Socialism leads nowhere, except to develop a population that become dependant upon the goverment, not self. So, how is Socialism working out for Greece, Spain, Portugal? Germany backed off from the expressway to Socialism and see how much better they are doing?
The road to Socialism leads nowhere, except to develop a population that become dependant upon the goverment, not self. So, how is Socialism working out for Greece, Spain, Portugal? Germany backed off from the expressway to Socialism and see how much better they are doing?
Maggie was tough, but that is what the UK needed.
i DON'T KNOW YOU? BUT BASED ON WHAT YOU WRITE PRETTY SURE YOU'RE NOT A eUROPEAN.
First of all Greece, Portugal and Spain were third world countries before they became member of the EU, comparable to Mexico for example. And secondly these countries have not been ruled bu socialists most of the time. Spain, Greece and Portugal were untill the 70s ruled by rightwing dictators, big friends of the US, like their dictator friends in Latin America. At that time living standards in these countries were generally lower than in many Eastern european communist countries. Most people in europe know this, that's why I think you're not a European. Americans only know what the corporate owned media show them.
"Socialism" or at least the European version, worked out pretty well in couuntries which can be compared to the US or the US, such as Sweden, Norway, Finland, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, etc. Most of these countries used to have a poorer living standard compared to the uk or US, but nowadays doing better. For example in Finland you don't pay for university, and not even for tuition or for accomodation for your child. It's free. Obviously all Finnish people enjoy state of the art healthcare and all of them live in comfortable houses. Now compare this to the us, with their many ghetto's, trailercamps, beggars, etc. or even to the UK, where there's an entire underclass who certainly don't have the same opportunities as people from well to do families.
I still don't see how Socialism could possible work on a large scale. I don't think any country like the United Sates could possible succeed going further and further towards Socialism. Hell, we have been over the years and have since been spiraling downward.
The US, and actually worldwide crisis, began under Bush junior, who allowed bankers to take huge risks, and created a huge deficit by giving presents to his very rich friends and starting unnecessary wars on the other side of the world.
That's why people voted for Obama, remember. Not once, but twice...
I'm not a fan of Obama because his hands are tied by the way the system works in the us, he can never do anything without support of lobby groups such as big industry, the Jewish lobby, etc. That's among many reasons (other reasons are for example controll of big capitalists on most of the important media)why democracy is just a word used to describe the system which is in reality just capitast.
However, Socialism and Hugo Chavez ruined Venezuela.
Any country that falls victim to socialism/communism speaks well of capitalistic abuses/greed that led to it. So, in effect, the greedy/abusive capitalists, unwittingly, have brought this about, country after country. They simply failed to see the Stop/Yield signs until it was too late!
So, who was ultimately responsible for ruining Venezuela?
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Socialist Roads are a dead end
