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Old 01-30-2014, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Durham, North Carolina
774 posts, read 1,614,540 times
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Please forgive the question ... we've all been living under the forces of the Norman Conquest (Divide and Conquer) for centuries.

Since more slaves were sent to South America than were sent to North America, racism and Apartheid seem to be deeply woven into the fabric of most of South America?

Add to the fact that Catholic Pope Innocent VIII started the African slave trade by persuading Spain and Portugal to stop fighting with each other and "go into Africa and do whatever you need to do to render them into subject slavery" ... I am curious to hear if there are any South American countries that have worked through the effects of "generational trauma".

And please don't say Brazil because the "whites" in Brazil are still very bigoted and emotionally retarded when it comes to true economic and social inclusion.

 
Old 01-30-2014, 10:10 AM
 
284 posts, read 506,998 times
Reputation: 308
they ALL do! even more so than the states. why do you think people of color are still at the bottom of society, live in slums, etc. in those places. look at brazil they lied and claimed they have a racial democracy when in reality the african descended (which is majority of the population) still live in favelas and have no rights to a proper education, work etc like the white brazilians.

this is why segregation in america was actually a good thing and benefited the blacks the most. they got to build their own communities, businesses, become educated, build their own schools, etc etc. unlike the rest of the blacks in diaspora. this is also why AA are the most successful in the diaspora they fought for their rights and didnt let white superiority be their fate.
 
Old 01-30-2014, 10:30 AM
 
30 posts, read 42,290 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by mach234 View Post
they ALL do! even more so than the states. why do you think people of color are still at the bottom of society, live in slums, etc. in those places. look at brazil they lied and claimed they have a racial democracy when in reality the african descended (which is majority of the population) still live in favelas and have no rights to a proper education, work etc like the white brazilians.

this is why segregation in america was actually a good thing and benefited the blacks the most. they got to build their own communities, businesses, become educated, build their own schools, etc etc. unlike the rest of the blacks in diaspora. this is also why AA are the most successful in the diaspora they fought for their rights and didnt let white superiority be their fate.
I've always found it odd when people say that Brazil is more than 50% black...It's not. According to Wikipedia, Blacks only make up 7.61% of their population.
 
Old 01-30-2014, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Brasilia
196 posts, read 359,866 times
Reputation: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by veganwriter View Post
Please forgive the question ... we've all been living under the forces of the Norman Conquest (Divide and Conquer) for centuries.

Since more slaves were sent to South America than were sent to North America, racism and Apartheid seem to be deeply woven into the fabric of most of South America?

Add to the fact that Catholic Pope Innocent VIII started the African slave trade by persuading Spain and Portugal to stop fighting with each other and "go into Africa and do whatever you need to do to render them into subject slavery" ... I am curious to hear if there are any South American countries that have worked through the effects of "generational trauma".

And please don't say Brazil because the "whites" in Brazil are still very bigoted and emotionally retarded when it comes to true economic and social inclusion.
When you start your question with a false positive, it's impossible to answer. United States had as many slaves as Brazil for that matter


Quote:
Originally Posted by mach234 View Post
they ALL do! even more so than the states. why do you think people of color are still at the bottom of society, live in slums, etc. in those places. look at brazil they lied and claimed they have a racial democracy when in reality the african descended (which is majority of the population) still live in favelas and have no rights to a proper education, work etc like the white brazilians.

this is why segregation in america was actually a good thing and benefited the blacks the most. they got to build their own communities, businesses, become educated, build their own schools, etc etc. unlike the rest of the blacks in diaspora. this is also why AA are the most successful in the diaspora they fought for their rights and didnt let white superiority be their fate.
First of all - WE DO NOT CLAIM WE HAVE NO RACISM. Do not say things you do not know.
Second - Black population is about 7% of Brazilian population. Do not say things you do not know
Third - White population is about 49%
Fourth - Mixed about 44%

But than again, Brazilians are free to say the colour of their skin when asked in the Census.
 
Old 01-30-2014, 11:53 AM
 
284 posts, read 506,998 times
Reputation: 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by antma robel View Post
When you start your question with a false positive, it's impossible to answer. United States had as many slaves as Brazil for that matter




First of all - WE DO NOT CLAIM WE HAVE NO RACISM. Do not say things you do not know.
Second - Black population is about 7% of Brazilian population. Do not say things you do not know
Third - White population is about 49%
Fourth - Mixed about 44%

But than again, Brazilians are free to say the colour of their skin when asked in the Census.
mixed , black .... they're both still in the same situation different than the whites. and still looked as a menace to your society.
 
Old 01-30-2014, 11:56 AM
 
284 posts, read 506,998 times
Reputation: 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by iWalkAlone View Post
I've always found it odd when people say that Brazil is more than 50% black...It's not. According to Wikipedia, Blacks only make up 7.61% of their population.
the "mixed" population has it no better than the "black" population in brazil. so there's really no point in differentiating the two
 
Old 01-30-2014, 12:06 PM
 
30 posts, read 42,290 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by mach234 View Post
mixed , black .... they're both still in the same situation different than the whites. and still looked as a menace to your society.
Well, fortunately I don't have that problem of being fooled into mindless stereotypes. They're not the same...I'm not saying one is better than the other, but their ethnic backgrounds are different. Being HALF White and HALF Black is not he same as being Black....Just like being half Mexican and half Korean is not the same as being %100 Korean or %100 Mexican, ethnically speaking.

Last edited by iWalkAlone; 01-30-2014 at 12:37 PM..
 
Old 01-30-2014, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Brasilia
196 posts, read 359,866 times
Reputation: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by mach234 View Post
mixed , black .... they're both still in the same situation different than the whites. and still looked as a menace to your society.
Better search for accurate informations...or maybe get back to the school.
 
Old 01-30-2014, 02:00 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,923,923 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by iWalkAlone View Post
I've always found it odd when people say that Brazil is more than 50% black...It's not. According to Wikipedia, Blacks only make up 7.61% of their population.

Let us not get into semantics. In Brazil being black is "bad", and so only the most negroid looking people describe themselves as such. In Brazil there are other ways that Afro descended people can describe themselves and so this is an under estimate of people whose dominant ancestry is African

So lets work with terminologies that also include those who are dark skinned mulatto.

True we don't know what the total population of these blacks and dark skinned mulattos is, but its higher than the 14% for equivalent groups in the USA, and yet way less visible outside of the usual realms of sports and entertainment.

Since the 90s it has become very obvious that there exists a solid cadre of American blacks who are involved in all facets of economic life in the USA. Indeed in 2014 the issue is not differentiation between blacks and whites, but differentiation between the richest 25% of blacks, and the poorest 25%.

This upper middle class of dark and medium toned Afro descendants is much less visible in Brazil, even though there are more of them. No surprise given that 40% of the slaves taken to the Americas were sent to Brazil.

Why if Brazil is this racial paradise? These people would be BETTER off than their US equivalent, but that's clearly not the case.

So let's leave it as this. Both Brazil and the USA are racist societies, though racial tensions are much less in Brazil, and there is more social integration between the various groups. The very segregation in the USA caused the development of a highly defined ethnic identity which pulled together the blacks with the mulattos, who had better access to education and upward mobility, and so assumed leadership in the struggle to reduce barriers of race. There was an aggressive attempt to reduce the racial barriers to upward mobility, though clearly class barriers still remain, as evidenced by the sizeable black under class in the USA.

So I really don't see why Latins spend so much time boasting, when I don't see what's there to boast about.

They ought to quit pretending that the USA of 1955 still defines the condition of blacks who live there. They need to admit that the tremendous reduction of barriers to upward mobility for blacks has vastly improved life for people of African descent in the USA.

They also need to admit that, until recently, there has been less of this activity in Latin America, because NON blacks decided that "there was no racism", and therefore no racial barriers to remove. They also need to understand that there are various Afrodescended groups throughout Latin America who have used the struggle of African Americans as a role model, and who now demand a discussion of issues surrounding racism and colorism in Latin America. And indeed this discussion led to attempts by universities in Brazil to improve their outreach to non whites, the result being a significant increase in the pool of black and brown college graduates.
 
Old 01-30-2014, 02:07 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,923,923 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by iWalkAlone View Post
W. Being HALF White and HALF Black is not he same as being Black......

And yet in places like Brazil and Colombia both remained at, or near, the bottom of the ladder, so clearly the mulatto was being penalized for being "half black". To quote a Brazilian activist, in Brazil every police man and employer knows exactly who is white and who isn't. And apparently only minimally concerned about the various gradations of non blackness which exist among these non white populations.

So why so much effort to quarantine this population who you call "black" as if the carry a disease or something?
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