Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This scenario is tough to predict. Like Tiger Beer said, I think Bolivia or some Central American nation would be the closest comparison.
I don't think the a 60% indigenous / 10% white / 30% other population would exist (unless by other you mean an indigenous/white mixture). Without the slave trade or European influenced economy to attract immigrants you would not have many that were not either indigenous or white.
Quote:
Originally Posted by P London
What are Indian reservations like?
They're rural and cover large areas of land. Native Americans have a lot of the same tendencies as rural white Americans, but with their traditions mixed in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by P London
Imagine large cities the size of Chicago over 50% Indigenous American....
There are large cites in South America that are mostly all indigenous types, but I don't think this would really happen in terms of a modern American city like Chicago.
This scenario is tough to predict. Like Tiger Beer said, I think Bolivia or some Central American nation would be the closest comparison.
I don't think the a 60% indigenous / 10% white / 30% other population would exist (unless by other you mean an indigenous/white mixture). Without the slave trade or European influenced economy to attract immigrants you would not have many that were not either indigenous or white.
They're rural and cover large areas of land. Native Americans have a lot of the same tendencies as rural white Americans, but with their traditions mixed in.
There are large cites in South America that are mostly all indigenous types, but I don't think this would really happen in terms of a modern American city like Chicago.
So lets assume that some countries in this new North America had more of a European population than others e.g. The Bos-wash corridor had a stronger European input that places further west.
Just guessing...
I think it would be like Africa probably....grinding poverty, military govt's etc. With European Colonization came standards of laws, based upon English common law, and a conquest mentality.
Probably a loose collection of amer-indian tribal states constantly warring with one another.
Been wondering for a while now if the United States and Canada didn't have the same amount of immigration from Europe and especially the mass population decline of the Indigenous Americans didn't occur.
For example lets say the plains "Indians", Cherokee, Inuit etc all retained their original healthy populations during a less intense European colonisation which were more fairer to them - What would current day US/Canada resemble?
So the Indigenous people were the majority like 60% and the European (white) population were closer to 10% with the rest made up of ethnic groups from around the world.
This is an interesting, though highly speculative, counterfactual. I'll propose some possibilities below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbiePoster
Speaking of North America, if the tribes hadn't been decimated by disease, they would've maintained the upper hand militarily (which they did immediately after the war for independence, but as the colonial population grew, it eventually gained a military advantage), so first of all, they probably would have continued their wars among themselves, and colonists might have occasionally got caught in the cross-fire.
And if the Native peoples maintained equal or superior numbers, they might have tried to corral or get rid of the colonists, if the colonists didn't behave themselves. Which they wouldn't have, because their population increased exponentially due to the lack of knowledge of birth control herbs, so they would've needed more and more land, encroaching illegally on Indian territory. Not to mention the gold rush that happened on Cherokee land. So clashes would have happened like they did, historically, but they would've been deadlier for the colonists, because of superior Indian numbers.
Possibly the Long March, the removal of the Cherokees and other Eastern tribes to Oklahoma Territory, wouldn't have happened, again, because of stronger military capabilities on the Cherokee side. They'd have stood their ground (they won 3 times in the Federal Supreme Court anyway) and fought. It would've been messy. The colonial side would have had to strike a truce, some kind of compromise, because it couldn't have won against equal or greater Native numbers.
Meanwhile, in the Spanish/Mexican territories, probably things would have evolved to something similar to how it is now, with the Indian pueblos self-governing, as they were under the Spanish, while the Navajos, Apaches, and Kowa would be marauding periodically. After the US took over, possibly Geronimo would have won, or there would have been a stand-off with federal troops. Anglos wouldn't have been able to settle the Southwest, in that case. They'd have had to give the warrior tribes a wide berth. A few might have settled among the pueblo communities along the Rio Grande in NM, for trading purposes.
California would have been a free-for-all. Due to the Gold Rush, there would have been Indian wars, but there would have been greater casualties on the Anglo side.
Agreed on the military advantages of the native populations. I think the repercussions would be much larger than you suggest.
1) Spain never colonizes central and south America. Conquistadors never actually attempt conquest due to the full-strength civilizations that are not decimated by a 100 year epidemic. Cortes and Pizarro instead are the first diplomatic outposts of Spanish trade missions to Central and South America. Inca cotton becomes an important trade good exchanged for European metals. Aztec civilization is comparatively closed and gradually stagnates. Portugal sets up trading outposts on the eastern coast of Brazil, but never forms true colonies there. Amazonians develop trade and diplomatic relations with Inca and Portuguese.
2) Britain never forms independent colonies on the eastern seaboard of the United States. Instead, it too establishes trading outposts with the natives, but does successfully establish colonies in the sparsely populated eastern regions of Canada. The United States is never founded, and the Canadian colonies never rebel, but eventually merge with the Algonquins. The Iroquois dominate the northeast and midwest, forming trade relationships with the British and militarily containing Britain's Canadian colony.
3) The Plains Indians become trade vassals of the successor to the Mississippian culture.
4) Miwok people unite politically and develop into a wealthy nation.
5) "King Cotton" never arises in the South. Industrial revolution is delayed and slowed.
6) European power crests and declines earlier. World Wars one and two do not occur. Without its colonial war, Britain exerts more military might in Europe, though it is unable to accumulate the overall force its colonial possessions allowed.
7) Maybe no unification of Germany, maybe China is never forced to open to European trade. Who knows?
Just guessing...
I think it would be like Africa probably....grinding poverty, military govt's etc. With European Colonization came standards of laws, based upon English common law, and a conquest mentality.
Probably a loose collection of amer-indian tribal states constantly warring with one another.
I'm sorry but the reason why Africa is in such a state IS because of European colonialism. Africa had many empires, traded with Asia, Arab world and Southern Europe. So comparing North America in this scenario to current day Africa is false.
One thing is for sure indigenous Americans would be better off.
It seems you think Europeans are the only people capable of living non animal like.
I'm sorry but the reason why Africa is in such a state IS because of European colonialism. Africa had many empires, traded with Asia, Arab world and Southern Europe. So comparing North America in this scenario to current day Africa is false.
One thing is for sure indigenous Americans would be better off.
It seems you think Europeans are the only people capable of living non animal like.
Nice way to put the blame on Europeans? What about the Muslims, Arabs and Arab Jews, and Jews and Asians that have been enslaving and taking advantage of Africa and it's peoples since ancient times and still continue to do so to this day? You can't leave that out either.
This is an interesting, though highly speculative, counterfactual. I'll propose some possibilities below.
Agreed on the military advantages of the native populations. I think the repercussions would be much larger than you suggest.
1) Spain never colonizes central and south America. Conquistadors never actually attempt conquest due to the full-strength civilizations that are not decimated by a 100 year epidemic. Cortes and Pizarro instead are the first diplomatic outposts of Spanish trade missions to Central and South America. Inca cotton becomes an important trade good exchanged for European metals. Aztec civilization is comparatively closed and gradually stagnates. Portugal sets up trading outposts on the eastern coast of Brazil, but never forms true colonies there. Amazonians develop trade and diplomatic relations with Inca and Portuguese.
2) Britain never forms independent colonies on the eastern seaboard of the United States. Instead, it too establishes trading outposts with the natives, but does successfully establish colonies in the sparsely populated eastern regions of Canada. The United States is never founded, and the Canadian colonies never rebel, but eventually merge with the Algonquins. The Iroquois dominate the northeast and midwest, forming trade relationships with the British and militarily containing Britain's Canadian colony.
3) The Plains Indians become trade vassals of the successor to the Mississippian culture.
4) Miwok people unite politically and develop into a wealthy nation.
5) "King Cotton" never arises in the South. Industrial revolution is delayed and slowed.
6) European power crests and declines earlier. World Wars one and two do not occur. Without its colonial war, Britain exerts more military might in Europe, though it is unable to accumulate the overall force its colonial possessions allowed.
7) Maybe no unification of Germany, maybe China is never forced to open to European trade. Who knows?
Spanish had colonized North America long before other European colonial powers and other colonists came.
Nice way to put the blame on Europeans? What about the Muslims, Arabs and Arab Jews, and Jews and Asians that have been enslaving and taking advantage of Africa and it's peoples since ancient times and still continue to do so to this day? You can't leave that out either.
Yes, but there isn't a brainwashed African diaspora population in the middle east is there. Nice try but the Atlantic slave trade were far more evil the trade also effected Africa itself not just the people.
Yes, but there isn't a brainwashed African diaspora population in the middle east is there. Nice try but the Atlantic slave trade were far more evil the trade also effected Africa itself not just the people.
"Nice try" what?
Also the Arabs were enslaving everyone from Asia, Europe, and Africa. The Arab Slave Trade was never really about race or color as the Atlantic Slave Trade would go on to be.
Also the Arabs were enslaving everyone from Asia, Europe, and Africa. The Arab Slave Trade was never really about race or color as the Atlantic Slave Trade would go on to be.
I swear everytime I say anything about how Europeans effected Africa badly people always seem to ridicule me as if its not true. Or say "but but but the arabs did it too" like WTF...
I agree with you.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
