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Old 12-18-2014, 07:22 PM
 
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I am 20, and an American of Italian descent. For many reasons I am considering relocation to a foreign country (will study at a University in the nation first, thn hopefully find employment or open a business enterprise), I have narrowed it down to three nations (or regions of said nations) that I am considering.

These nations are: Argentina, Uruguay, and the Southern region of Brazil (states of Santa Catarina, Rio Grande do Sul, Parana, and Sao Paulo).

Here are my criteria:

Safety - Low risk of being assaulted, robbed, or kidnapped. Additionally somewhere with social stability that isn't subject to large scale unrest, protests, revolutions, or civil disobedience is important.


Economic stability - A decent economy, somewhere that doesn't have widespread endemic poverty, and where doing business isn't a bureaucratic nightmare.


European/Western influence - A westernized place where the majority of inhabitants have European ancestry


Religion - Somewhere where religion (especially the Roman Catholic Church) still has an influence over society and where the majority of people (especially the younger generation!) tend to have at least some degree of religious observance.


Education - As I said, I would like to attend a University and languages courses in my new home country, so I would like a place with a high standard in tertiary education. Further, although I am single and childless now I anticipate having a family so a good education system would be important so I don't have to spend lots of money on private school for my future kids.



Of course I would have to look into the processes of which to immigrate, but I am just wondering wha you other South/Latin Americans think would be my best choice.
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Old 12-18-2014, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Brazil
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Except for the european influence and religion, it doesnt seams that South America is your destination...
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Old 12-18-2014, 09:17 PM
Status: "Thinking of the future..." (set 12 days ago)
 
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Uruguay is you best bet. Argentina is an economic mess right now and Brazil is very hands on regarding its economy with plenty of regulation.

Uruguay is actually one of the most Italian countries in the world in the sense that a significant percentage of the country's population is of mixed Spanish and Italian descent. Its also sandwiched between southeastern Brazil and Buenos Aires in Argentina, which considering those areas are to your liking will be nice weekend gate away destinations for you.

Safety Uruguay is quite a safe country, more so than Brasil and Metro Burnis Aires in Argentina. Pls in Argentina crime is actually going up with no end in sight.

Economy Uruguay is your best choice. Brazil is very bureaucratic and Argentina is too volatile.

Western Influence Uruguay is basically a European transplant country and much of the culture their is of Latin Europe, especially Spain and Italy.

Religion Catholic influence is widespread in the three countries and while there is much of that in Uruguay too, it is one of the most Atheist countries in the world. Despite that, the Catholic influence is obvious and there are plenty of religious people around. Most of the religious types are Catholic too.

Education Uruguay has one of the highest college graduation rates in Latin America and a very good tertiary and lower level education. People there tend to be very well educated.

Here is a good source for emigrating to Uruguay: URUGUAY RELOCATION

Interesting videos:





Please excuse whatever typos, I made this post from my iPhone.

Last edited by AntonioR; 12-18-2014 at 09:30 PM..
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Old 12-19-2014, 04:35 AM
 
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There is a ranking that is called human development index (HDI)
According to that Chile is placed first and not Uruguay.

In any case, you are basically limited to three options if you want to learn spanish using your criteria.
In order:

1. Chile
Chile has the highest HDI, it's a very developed economy (chile is the only very high human developed, OECD country in latin america). This has granted Chileans access to most countries without the need to apply for visa. For example, Chile is in the visa waiver prg for the US, visa-free for Canada, EU etc) Least crime, best overall economic performance. It's people are easily the most westernized of all latin america imo; they are quiet hard-working individuals with great respect for law and order. Very little corruption. Chile ranks no1 in healthcare system and in the international education ranking PISA. Chile also boasts the no1 university in the region. It's arquitecture (modern and neo-classic with scattered colonial buildings) ranks no1 in the region and so does it's transportation system. Obvious candidate.

2. Argentina
Argentina has one of the richest economies in the region. There is also a lot of intangible richness like it's world class food, music, art scene. It's downtown area is very european and highly metropolitan. They are also very european (south europeans) a bit noisy and caotic order (excuse the oxymoron) while very friendly and helpful. It reminds me in several ways of southern Italy. Argentina has a great (at least so we hope) public transportation system that have had a few major accidents with loss of life in recent years but has undergone a great overhaul. There is though (similar to brazil) a high tariff on imported goods, so buying any electronics would be a bad idea. They are also struggling with a persistently high, double digit inflation rate. This have made hard currency like the dollar more attractive. There are two exchange rates, one is the official and the other is black market. Curruption is also a persistent problem, they rank iirc just above venezuela at the bottom of the transparency index. Argentinas healthcare system is free but quality needs to be risen to compete with chile or cuba... Education is also free but lacks quality and this can be seen through the pisa ranking. They ranked 59 out of 65 countries that the OECD checked out.

3. Uruguay
Uruguay is known for it's tiny population and for being basically a satellite province of argentina. Uruguays biggest problem is that it's economy is tightly linked to Argentina's. They do however excel in terms of corruption, I believe it's most corruption free country in latin america with chile close behind. They have a high social rest ranking and crime is also under control. They lack a modern public transport system with subway but that might change in the future. The country is labeled a "stable democracy". There are large groups of rather far-left intellectuals and musicians, even more so than in Chile or Argentina.

Last edited by MrPilot; 12-19-2014 at 05:56 AM..
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Old 12-19-2014, 03:24 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
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Great choices. Those would be my top three choices as well. I spent a long time researching the entire continent and came to those same three for my purposes. Uruguay topped my list for a number of reasons, some of them being on your list of criteria.
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Old 12-22-2014, 11:31 AM
 
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You said:


These nations are: Argentina, Uruguay, and the Southern region of Brazil (states of Santa Catarina, Rio Grande do Sul, Parana, and Sao Paulo) - Of all of these I would choose Uruguay as the one that fit's most of your criteria to a "T"


Safety - Low risk of being assaulted, robbed, or kidnapped. Additionally somewhere with social stability that isn't subject to large scale unrest, protests, revolutions, or civil disobedience is important - There's always going to be an elevated risk for something like this happening "anywhere" in latin america. Argentina has gotten alot worse since I've been here and I don't see it improving at all. I'm not so sure about Uruguay other than the fact that when I was in Montivideo it gave me the sense it was not a very secure city. Also, we had some folks there tell us to be wary of being out at night. My Argentines friend Brazilian wife is from Sao Paulo and she has told us how bad the insecurity problem is there. Argentines LOVE a passionate protest, whatever the reason. It seems like every day there's some special interest group protesting and making noise somewhere. Not to mention labor strikes: these are virtually a weekly occurance here in Argentina....someone is ALWAYS on strike somewhere LOL! I just got an email recently from the embassy in Argentina telling ex-pat americans to be especially vigilant in Argentina as express kidnappings and reported crimes against americans are on the rise here, and I definately concurr. The true figures on violent crime, crime and robbery here are actually grossly under reported and theft and robbery here are virtually out of control especially. I've had my house burglarized already once, my wife was almost mugged more than once and I had an american friend shot last November (2013) 3 times, 2 times in the back, once in the leg during a violent home invasion. Another couple we know was robbed violently "2" times during a 2 week period last July, the last time they came for the car. They never got their car back. In the news it's "day in and day out" it's all over the local news virtually continually.


Economic stability - A decent economy, somewhere that doesn't have widespread endemic poverty, and where doing business isn't a bureaucratic nightmare - Argentina is very unstable, basically a mess right now. We are facing 40% inflation and the prices on everything are outrageous! It's very hard as a foreigner to get approved for loans of any kind and rent here is skyrocketing through the roof. However, if you have income that you can use from outside of the US, you can do very well, the exchange is VERY much in your favor right now. Living and working in Argentina you'll be paid in pesos and getting dollars here ( unless from a street changer on the black market ) is virtually "impossible" right now. Uruguay seems fairly stable. Brazils economy has beguin to contract somewhat as well


European/Western influence - A westernized place where the majority of inhabitants have European ancestry - Uruguay or Argentina..... especially Montivideo Uruguay or Buenos Aires province or the major argentine cities like Rosario, Cordoba etc.. Upper classes more Europeanish, lower classes more mestizo.


Religion - Somewhere where religion (especially the Roman Catholic Church) still has an influence over society and where the majority of people (especially the younger generation!) tend to have at least some degree of religious observance - Hmm... Uruguay is known globally as one of the most atheist countries in the world and is ULTRA liberal. Argentines have sort of religious observance but not dedication. Here the only time they'll darken the wall of a church is during a baptism, wedding or Easter or some of the feast days. Other than that here they have all kinds of different stuff. Lot's of sects, eastern religions, mysticism. I'd say these countries are very secular really, overall. However, you'd be suprised, the evangelicals have a firm strong hold here. But Catholicism is more or less almost like they do it for traditional reasons but not really out of devotion. In the rural areas folks are observant religious as catholics than in the cities.


Education - As I said, I would like to attend a University and languages courses in my new home country, so I would like a place with a high standard in tertiary education. Further, although I am single and childless now I anticipate having a family so a good education system would be important so I don't have to spend lots of money on private school for my future kids - Both Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay have good institutions educationally.



Of course I would have to look into the processes of which to immigrate, but I am just wondering wha you other South/Latin Americans think would be my best choice.

Last edited by EricOldTime; 12-22-2014 at 11:39 AM..
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Old 12-22-2014, 12:37 PM
 
476 posts, read 468,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italianoamericano View Post
I am 20, and an American of Italian descent. For many reasons I am considering relocation to a foreign country (will study at a University in the nation first, thn hopefully find employment or open a business enterprise), I have narrowed it down to three nations (or regions of said nations) that I am considering.

These nations are: Argentina, Uruguay, and the Southern region of Brazil (states of Santa Catarina, Rio Grande do Sul, Parana, and Sao Paulo).

Here are my criteria:

Safety - Low risk of being assaulted, robbed, or kidnapped. Additionally somewhere with social stability that isn't subject to large scale unrest, protests, revolutions, or civil disobedience is important.


Economic stability - A decent economy, somewhere that doesn't have widespread endemic poverty, and where doing business isn't a bureaucratic nightmare.


European/Western influence - A westernized place where the majority of inhabitants have European ancestry


Religion - Somewhere where religion (especially the Roman Catholic Church) still has an influence over society and where the majority of people (especially the younger generation!) tend to have at least some degree of religious observance.


Education - As I said, I would like to attend a University and languages courses in my new home country, so I would like a place with a high standard in tertiary education. Further, although I am single and childless now I anticipate having a family so a good education system would be important so I don't have to spend lots of money on private school for my future kids.



Of course I would have to look into the processes of which to immigrate, but I am just wondering wha you other South/Latin Americans think would be my best choice.
If you look like one of the Jersey Shore cast, you will be perceived as a black man in Argentina, Uruguay, or Southern Brazil.
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Old 12-23-2014, 09:04 AM
 
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Mr Pilot said:

1. Chile
Chile has the highest HDI, it's a very developed economy (chile is the only very high human developed, OECD country in latin america). This has granted Chileans access to most countries without the need to apply for visa. For example, Chile is in the visa waiver prg for the US, visa-free for Canada, EU etc) Least crime, best overall economic performance. It's people are easily the most westernized of all latin america imo; they are quiet hard-working individuals with great respect for law and order. Very little corruption. Chile ranks no1 in healthcare system and in the international education ranking PISA. Chile also boasts the no1 university in the region. It's arquitecture (modern and neo-classic with scattered colonial buildings) ranks no1 in the region and so does it's transportation system. Obvious candidate - Least crime? well I'm not sure about that. Crime is an issue in all of south america and Chile is no exception. It's probably not as bad as other latin-american countries but in Nuñoa where I lived on the east side of Santiago, crime was definately an issue. I was told to be vary wary walking at night on Ave Irrarazaval and Grecia, especially on weekends. Even so, I never had an incident while living there but I know folks that did. I had friends that lived in a very poor area of "La Reina" on the east side of Santiago who've experienced lot's of crime. I've also heard "La Florida" on the south side of Santiago has problems as well. Here, as in anywhere in latin america, you have to be on your toes. You need to have thick skin, learn to be somewhat more confrontational if necessary and be vigilant at all times. Chile is no exception. Chileans are more orderly, generally, than other latinos I've met, generally more so than the Argentines. However, Chile IMHO still has much more of the old world style class society mentality with that class hierarchy still deeply implanted in Chilean society, more so than in Argentina. This is is especially so with regards to women in the workplace and also social classes. It's a country where the stark contrasts between the ultra impoverished and the wealthy are VERY visible. It's VERY difficult to rise out of whatever social class you've been born into in Chile. Southern Chile is an absolute paradise. Some of the most beautiful natural scenery I've ever seen was at the summit of Volcan Osorno in the south. The climate there is very humid, chilly and damp, very similar to Seattle and the Pacific NW of the US.

2. Argentina
Argentina has one of the richest economies in the region. There is also a lot of intangible richness like it's world class food, music, art scene. It's downtown area is very european and highly metropolitan. They are also very european (south europeans) a bit noisy and caotic order (excuse the oxymoron) while very friendly and helpful. It reminds me in several ways of southern Italy. Argentina has a great (at least so we hope) public transportation system that have had a few major accidents with loss of life in recent years but has undergone a great overhaul. There is though (similar to brazil) a high tariff on imported goods, so buying any electronics would be a bad idea. They are also struggling with a persistently high, double digit inflation rate. This have made hard currency like the dollar more attractive. There are two exchange rates, one is the official and the other is black market. Curruption is also a persistent problem, they rank iirc just above venezuela at the bottom of the transparency index. Argentinas healthcare system is free but quality needs to be risen to compete with chile or cuba... Education is also free but lacks quality and this can be seen through the pisa ranking. They ranked 59 out of 65 countries that the OECD checked out. - Argentina (where I live) is having a VERY serious problem with exploding crime, theft and violent crime. I've really seen it get worse since I've been here and it seems there's no end in sight. Public transport is good, as long as you don't take the train LOL. The economy is an absolute mess here with soaring inflation upwards of 40%. It's virtually "impossible" to get dollars anywhere, save on the street. It's increasingly difficult for foreigners, especially americans to get loans. Homeownership is virtually unthinkable unless you have alot of money. I also think that Argentina needs alot of work with regards to it's democratic institutions...it's not quite there yet. The gov't is basically a mafia and is involved in money laundering and ilegal drugs, hands down, without a doubt. Argentina has one of the highest tax bases in the world, with the least amount of return in public services. The higher the classes in Argentina, the more European, the lower, the more mestizo. Buenos Aires and other major cities have a very European feel, except for the slums and the rural towns and villages are very "south-american" in feel. It's a beautiful country with a fairly highly educated workforce and such promise, only to fall far short of it's potential due to it's extensive and firmly entrenched corruption. It's really very sad. The gov't healthcare system here is atrocious and mainly used by only the lower classes and extremely poor. The two gov't run hospitals here that I've seen had some of the filthiest conditions I've ever seen, I've spoken about it on other threads. The middle and upper classes ( my wife and I included ) have private healthcare and pay for it through a local co-op with a local private hospital and it is VERY VERY expensive but worth it.

3. Uruguay
Uruguay is known for it's tiny population and for being basically a satellite province of argentina. Uruguays biggest problem is that it's economy is tightly linked to Argentina's. They do however excel in terms of corruption, I believe it's most corruption free country in latin america with chile close behind. They have a high social rest ranking and crime is also under control. They lack a modern public transport system with subway but that might change in the future. The country is labeled a "stable democracy". There are large groups of rather far-left intellectuals and musicians, even more so than in Chile or Argentina - I've been told though that insecurity and crime is also a growing issue in the major cities of Uruguay as well. It's on the rise throughout south-america to be quite honest. It's been some years since I've visited, but when my wife and I were visiting Montivideo last (in 2007) we were warned by locals to be careful walking in Montivideo after dark. The city is very old, with great colonial spanish architecture, but it seemed a city in great disrepair, bordering on derelect in some areas. It does have some beautiful parks though. I found Uruguayans to be less friendly and colder and a bit more aloof than argentines, even though the accent and dialect is virtually identical as they speak "Voseo" and "Rio-Platense" just like the argentines across the border. Rural Uruguay is very similar to parts of Buenos Aires province and also Entre Rios and "El Litoral" in the eastern part of Argentina. However Uruguay as more rolling topography and hills and almost small mountains than the same area of Argentine adjacent to Uruguay. Uruguay is a sleepier, more rural version of Argentina in many aspects. It's also not only one of the most liberal countries in the world, it's one of the most secular and atheist countries and the world.

Last edited by EricOldTime; 12-23-2014 at 09:13 AM..
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Old 12-27-2014, 10:29 AM
 
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I don't know why people keep saying that Uruguay is really safe.

Also, Uruguay is no utopia. There is poverty and crime- maybe not as much as in other countries at the moment, but it sure does exist. My mother-in-law lives there and her area sure isn't anything to write home about. It is still Latin America, there is still horrible bureaucracy (which even exists in southern Brazil, don't kid yourself).

Also, to the OP- it is incredibly hard to enter a university in these countries. There is alot of competition. To get a job is also incredibly difficult. It would be in your best interest to enter a US university, study abroad and travel around, and get a feel for the culture. Then move there. Plus, many of these countries place more value on US degrees and you will have more opportunities.

Last edited by rosa surf; 12-27-2014 at 10:57 AM..
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Old 12-28-2014, 03:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosa surf View Post
I don't know why people keep saying that Uruguay is really safe.

Also, Uruguay is no utopia. There is poverty and crime- maybe not as much as in other countries at the moment, but it sure does exist. My mother-in-law lives there and her area sure isn't anything to write home about. It is still Latin America, there is still horrible bureaucracy (which even exists in southern Brazil, don't kid yourself).

Also, to the OP- it is incredibly hard to enter a university in these countries. There is alot of competition. To get a job is also incredibly difficult. It would be in your best interest to enter a US university, study abroad and travel around, and get a feel for the culture. Then move there. Plus, many of these countries place more value on US degrees and you will have more opportunities.

Absolutely 100%! Especially since you speak English. I work in sales and support for an Argentine software company. Sales and support jobs are definately a job position you would and could get hired for here in an instant. They place a premium on native english speakers...and many of these companies pay fairly well.
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