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Old 11-29-2015, 12:54 AM
 
Location: BC Canada
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I've often wondered why Central America is a collection of small countries and not one larger one.


I can certainly see Belize being independent as it's ethnic makeup is vastly different being primarily of African decent and of course English been it's primary language also sets it apart.


What I've never understood is why Panama, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, and Honduras came about and developed independently. They are all ex colonies of Spain, have Spanish as the official language, are all predominately Catholic, have similar economies, conquered and subservient indigenous population, and similar climates. They certainly have different indigenous populations but even there their differences are not near as great as the indigenous communities in Mexico, the US, or Canada.


Why did Central America become so disconnected with such similar ethnic, religious, historical, and political systems? It has always puzzled me so if anyone can explain that would be great.
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Old 11-29-2015, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Somewhere on the Moon.
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Panama was an integral part of Colombia until the USA got militarily involved and forcibly separated them in order to build and take control of the Panama Canal. The USA did this after attempting to negotiate a deal with Colombia in order to build the canal and Colombia refused.

The other Central American countries were separate provinces of Spain and then they separated and became an independent country. Initially they attempted to be a single country called The United Provinces of Central America, but that didn't work and so each Spanish province later became its own country.

The same happened with all the other Spanish provinces in America with few exceptions (for example Mexico emerged by the combination of a few provinces of Spain). If you look at a map of the Spanish countries of America you will notice that most still have their original name from when they were provinces of Spain (even the ones with Native American names, because the Spaniards adopted those names such as Peru or Chile as the official names of their respective provinces) and their national borders often resembles the original borders of the Spanish provinces. Some former provinces of Spain adopted new names once they became independent countries, but today are still informally known by their original provincial name (for example, the Dominican Republic is still referred to as Santo Domingo, which is also the name of its capital city and one of the official names of the island.)

As for why did the Spaniards (I use this liberally because technically anyone born in a Spnanish American province was legally Spanish regardless if they had Spanish blood or not, it just so happen that most did had Spanish blood albeit mixed with something else, but even the Native Americans and the unmixed Africans were legally Spanish nationals), that's just a peculiarity of the Spanish way of seeing the world. If you look at modern day Spain, they are very regionalistic and quite a few provinces are acrually autonomous regions of Spain. A few still have aspirations of separating from Spain, such as Cataluna which has been threatning to separate for centuries. Whatever you do, be careful before telling a Catalan that they are Spaniards. You will get an earful of how they are first Catalan. lol

The British weren't as regionalistic, as can be evidenced with the union of the 13 British colonies to become the United States. The rest of the British colonies in America didn't join the 13 colonies because they were much more loyal to London, but has they not been they would had joined and from the very beginning the USA would had included places such as Canada and Jamaica.

The Portuguese were much more united. Their entire American presence became the giant Brazil.

Lastly, racial dynamics don't really dictates what Spanish provinces would be independent or even until what area Spanish/Latin American jurisdiction takes place. In fact, most Spanish Central American countries are predominantly mulatto and black along their Caribbean coast and that hasn't caused any of them to even consider separating their Caribbean coasts. Most of those Caribbean communities culturally are much closer to the English Caribbean because most descend from mulattoes and blacks taken there from Jamaica and the other English islands by the US American corporations that had sugar and banana plantations. Also, Guatemala still has a segment of its political class and population that believes that Belize still belongs to them and they wish to annex it. That Belize has many English-speaking blacks with their own national identity is of little or no concern for the Guatemalans. That land was originally Guatemala and England stole it from them and then filled it with black workers, or so they say.

With all of this said and done, lets not forget that there are more similarities between the USA and Canada than between many Central American countries and yet, the USA and Canada are nowhere near a possible unification.
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Old 11-30-2015, 07:56 AM
 
Location: IN MY BED
439 posts, read 518,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Panama was an integral part of Colombia until the USA got militarily involved and forcibly separated them in order to build and take control of the Panama Canal. The USA did this after attempting to negotiate a deal with Colombia in order to build the canal and Colombia refused.

The other Central American countries were separate provinces of Spain and then they separated and became an independent country. Initially they attempted to be a single country called The United Provinces of Central America, but that didn't work and so each Spanish province later became its own country.

The same happened with all the other Spanish provinces in America with few exceptions (for example Mexico emerged by the combination of a few provinces of Spain). If you look at a map of the Spanish countries of America you will notice that most still have their original name from when they were provinces of Spain (even the ones with Native American names, because the Spaniards adopted those names such as Peru or Chile as the official names of their respective provinces) and their national borders often resembles the original borders of the Spanish provinces. Some former provinces of Spain adopted new names once they became independent countries, but today are still informally known by their original provincial name (for example, the Dominican Republic is still referred to as Santo Domingo, which is also the name of its capital city and one of the official names of the island.)

As for why did the Spaniards (I use this liberally because technically anyone born in a Spnanish American province was legally Spanish regardless if they had Spanish blood or not, it just so happen that most did had Spanish blood albeit mixed with something else, but even the Native Americans and the unmixed Africans were legally Spanish nationals), that's just a peculiarity of the Spanish way of seeing the world. If you look at modern day Spain, they are very regionalistic and quite a few provinces are acrually autonomous regions of Spain. A few still have aspirations of separating from Spain, such as Cataluna which has been threatning to separate for centuries. Whatever you do, be careful before telling a Catalan that they are Spaniards. You will get an earful of how they are first Catalan. lol

The British weren't as regionalistic, as can be evidenced with the union of the 13 British colonies to become the United States. The rest of the British colonies in America didn't join the 13 colonies because they were much more loyal to London, but has they not been they would had joined and from the very beginning the USA would had included places such as Canada and Jamaica.

The Portuguese were much more united. Their entire American presence became the giant Brazil.

Lastly, racial dynamics don't really dictates what Spanish provinces would be independent or even until what area Spanish/Latin American jurisdiction takes place. In fact, most Spanish Central American countries are predominantly mulatto and black along their Caribbean coast and that hasn't caused any of them to even consider separating their Caribbean coasts. Most of those Caribbean communities culturally are much closer to the English Caribbean because most descend from mulattoes and blacks taken there from Jamaica and the other English islands by the US American corporations that had sugar and banana plantations. Also, Guatemala still has a segment of its political class and population that believes that Belize still belongs to them and they wish to annex it. That Belize has many English-speaking blacks with their own national identity is of little or no concern for the Guatemalans. That land was originally Guatemala and England stole it from them and then filled it with black workers, or so they say.

With all of this said and done, lets not forget that there are more similarities between the USA and Canada than between many Central American countries and yet, the USA and Canada are nowhere near a possible unification.
Well said. And I may add about my country, Panama, that it was never part of Central America as posted it by AntonioR, therefore, we are totally different from those countries; for example, geographically, we are part of them, but our culture, traditions, cuisine, even the way we look are totally different. We resemble more the Caribbean because of our relation with Caribbeans brought to Panama during the construction of the Panama Canal and because of our relationship with "La Gran Colombia," not "Colombia."

The OP made some mistakes, the economies in Central America are not similar, only Panama and Costa Rica have similar economies, on the other hand, the rest are nowhere near us; furthermore, IMO, we cannot become a unified country because this would bring a great deal of issues to Panama and Costa Rica and let's not enter in details. Also, Indigenous people in Central America are not the same, there are descendants of Mayans, Chicbchas, Aztecs and some others. Politically, we are also different, there are full democracies, false democracies and dictatorships.
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Old 11-30-2015, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Somewhere on the Moon.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by folicure View Post
Well said. And I may add about my country, Panama, that it was never part of Central America as posted it by AntonioR, therefore, we are totally different from those countries; for example, geographically, we are part of them, but our culture, traditions, cuisine, even the way we look are totally different. We resemble more the Caribbean because of our relation with Caribbeans brought to Panama during the construction of the Panama Canal and because of our relationship with "La Gran Colombia," not "Colombia."
First of all, I mentioned Panama because it is in Central America and the OP mentioned it. Belize is culturally much closer to the British Caribbean than Panama is and they don't suffer any problems with accepting the fact that they are in Central America.

Secondly, Panama was a part of modern Colombia. Gran Colombia was dissolved in 1831 while Panama separate from Colombia in 1903.

In addition, the isthmus of Darien (basically all of Panama) is still included in Colombia's official coat of arms.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat...ms_of_Colombia
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Old 11-30-2015, 01:00 PM
 
549 posts, read 718,341 times
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I tried to give you rep points (Antonio) but CD says I have to spread some love around first. With that being said, you summed it up quite well.

Thank you.
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Old 11-30-2015, 02:28 PM
 
Location: IN MY BED
439 posts, read 518,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
First of all, I mentioned Panama because it is in Central America and the OP mentioned it. Belize is culturally much closer to the British Caribbean than Panama is and they don't suffer any problems with accepting the fact that they are in Central America.

Secondly, Panama was a part of modern Colombia. Gran Colombia was dissolved in 1831 while Panama separate from Colombia in 1903.

In addition, the isthmus of Darien (basically all of Panama) is still included in Colombia's official coat of arms.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat...ms_of_Colombia
Perhaps I didn't explain myself clear enough as for you to understand. What I meant to say was that I totally agreed with what you have just posted. Now, you have changed everything and the meaning of it.

I really don't want to get into a discussion about whether Panama feels at ease by being called part of Central America, but the everyday Panamanian feeling is no, we are not part of it, nor do we want to be part of it, if Belize feels fine by being called Central America, hey by all means, more power to them. We also have a extremely large Caribbean descendant community in Panama, consequently, you cannot state the fact whether Belize is closer to the Caribbean than Panama is.

Secondly, we never felt as being part of Colombia as it is nowadays, if you don't believe so, just look it up in wikipedia as you did before, and you will find out that Panama tried 17 times to get its separation from Colombia before it actually did in 1903, that tells you that we voluntarily formed part of the Gran Colombia, yet, we were never part, nor did we want to be part of the country called Colombia as it is known today.

In addition, if Colombia wants to keep the isthmus of Darien included in its coat of arms and be the jester of the world, hey by all means, let it be, for Panama united itself to the Gran Colombia, never to Colombia and was only part of it for 84 years, now Panama has been an independent country for 114 years, and if by any chance, we were still part of Colombia, I can asure you that Panama would not be what it is today. It reminds me of Taiwan and China, the latter still claims Taiwan as a rebel province and Taiwan only laughs about it.

Thank you.
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Old 12-06-2015, 01:13 AM
 
Location: BC Canada
987 posts, read 1,306,542 times
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Thank you for the explanations, it helped a lot.


I know that Panama and Costa Rica are more similar in terms of standard of living, governance, economy etc as opposed to Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Honduras.
That said, how do the people get along? I'm not talking official governments but rather the average people.


Do people identify as Central Americans or more than individual countries? Is there any animosity or significant ethnic biasis? Do people see themselves as North Americans or Central Americans? Is there one particular country that everyone likes or dislikes?


I find Central America as fascinating as I do bewildering so I appreciate the feedback.
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Old 12-06-2015, 05:42 AM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
10,623 posts, read 15,944,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooguy View Post
Do people identify as Central Americans or more than individual countries?

Do people see themselves as North Americans or Central Americans?

Is there one particular country that everyone likes or dislikes?
I guess individual countries.

Central Americans.

I think Honduras (highest homicide rate in the world) is the least liked in the region.
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Old 12-06-2015, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Canada
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Central Americans get along fine for the most part. I'm sure some one will come along and tell you different, but for the most part everything is cool among average people. Yes, people identify more with their countries rather than the region as whole and they do not see themselves as North American.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooguy View Post
Thank you for the explanations, it helped a lot.


I know that Panama and Costa Rica are more similar in terms of standard of living, governance, economy etc as opposed to Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Honduras.
That said, how do the people get along? I'm not talking official governments but rather the average people.


Do people identify as Central Americans or more than individual countries? Is there any animosity or significant ethnic biasis? Do people see themselves as North Americans or Central Americans? Is there one particular country that everyone likes or dislikes?


I find Central America as fascinating as I do bewildering so I appreciate the feedback.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davy-040 View Post

I think Honduras (highest homicide rate in the world) is the least liked in the region.
No, that is false. Hondurans are not the least liked. I can see where this is going to go now.

Last edited by UrbanLuis; 12-06-2015 at 07:01 AM..
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Old 12-06-2015, 10:57 PM
 
Location: BC Canada
987 posts, read 1,306,542 times
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Is Mexico seen as a fellow Central American country or as something completely different?
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