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View Poll Results: Do you think they should build a highway through the Darien Gap?
Yes 14 38.89%
No 22 61.11%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-26-2016, 07:10 PM
 
Location: London, UK
4,096 posts, read 3,719,938 times
Reputation: 2900

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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
I understand that people worry about the need to put food on the table and it's true I've not lived there but destroying the environment is not going to help you put food on the table. I don't see homeless people here going and chopping down trees and destroying the environment. They'll beg for money or try and sell anything they can find to get money to survive. So your argument does not hold water. Heck even when I've been to Mexico and Brazil, I didn't see people destroying the environment and guess what, they had parks and roads to them...how about that
You really have no clue.

1. Conservation relies on political will. If the focus and resources is on many other grave problems like poverty, violence, narcotics, education, jobs, healthcare and ending the war then there's little time and money for other "luxuries" like conservation.

2. There are poor people in and around that area. Poor people will travel for opportunities in illegal mining set up by violent and illegal militias or illicit crop growing. You really have zero clue of the dynamics.

3. Your examples are so stupid. As I've said before, Brazil has decimated its entire Atlantic forest and has wiped out 2 Californias (that's over 6 Englands) from the Amazon.

4. In studies across the world the US and Brazil are consistently ranked as the worst performers in environmental impact. Go send your defense letters to those bodies, the one which I showed you was in Adelaide, Aus.
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Old 07-26-2016, 07:21 PM
 
Location: In transition
10,635 posts, read 16,692,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
You really have no clue.

1. Conservation relies on political will. If the focus and resources is on many other grave problems like poverty, violence, narcotics, education, jobs, healthcare and ending the war then there's little time and money for other "luxuries" like conservation.

2. There are poor people in and around that area. Poor people will travel for opportunities in illegal mining set up by violent and illegal militias or illicit crop growing. You really have zero clue of the dynamics.

3. Your examples are so stupid. As I've said before, Brazil has decimated its entire Atlantic forest and has wiped out 2 Californias (that's over 6 Englands) from the Amazon.

4. In studies across the world the US and Brazil are consistently ranked as the worst performers in environmental impact. Go send your defense letters to those bodies, the one which I showed you was in Adelaide, Aus.
No sorry you are wrong. Poor people in thè countryside go to the cities for opportunities and not some illegal mining camp. Like I said, if the Darien was SO important to conserve then the government would spend a lot of financial resources on it. But obviously it's not important as many other things so why not build a road to connect North and South America to increase trade?
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Old 07-26-2016, 07:41 PM
 
Location: London, UK
4,096 posts, read 3,719,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
No sorry you are wrong. Poor people in thè countryside go to the cities for opportunities and not some illegal mining camp. Like I said, if the Darien was SO important to conserve then the government would spend a lot of financial resources on it. But obviously it's not important as many other things so why not build a road to connect North and South America to increase trade?
No you are wrong. As well as the cities, people go to the oil, coal, gold, uranium, coca and emerald fields/mines. Powerful greedy militias spoil lands and threaten the local indigenous and African populations that have been there for generations.


Conservation is important but you also have to be honest with yourself. Can you control the pandora's box? If not then you leave it until you're ready. Your hasty decision making obviously indicate that you're young and fool hardy or have never run a business or been in a place of large responsibility.

The road can possibly be built when Colombia's reached the economical strength of somewhere like the Czech Republic until then transporting trade by sea is far more economical anyway than by land.
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Old 07-26-2016, 08:40 PM
 
2,631 posts, read 2,049,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
It's not weak love, it's Money! Resources! Cold hard cash. There is no comparison.

And sorry but the US with its horrendous environmental impact on the world is not something to emulate. Brazil and U.S. Ranked Worst for Environmental Impact
Look at the proportional list to get better feel, if you even take these kinds of studies seriously.

I'd say the US is a very good model to emulate when it comes to stewardship of resources. It's a fustercluck of a system, but American seas and forests are still filled with life.
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Old 07-26-2016, 09:05 PM
 
Location: IN MY BED
439 posts, read 521,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasparian View Post
Panama is an irrelevant little country... We're talking big here, not focusing on the sensibilities of irrelevant little countries with a bus load of people for population!

21st century development, economic growth for continental unions!

Who cares about panamenians

The average panama person is irrelevant on this case

mega-states and countries like the US are not gonna stop trading because a bunch of panamanians (or however u spell that) don't want to!
Not worthy of an answer.
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Old 07-26-2016, 09:06 PM
 
Location: London, UK
4,096 posts, read 3,719,938 times
Reputation: 2900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Return2FL View Post
Look at the proportional list to get better feel, if you even take these kinds of studies seriously.

I'd say the US is a very good model to emulate when it comes to stewardship of resources. It's a fustercluck of a system, but American seas and forests are still filled with life.
Here we go, the typical gun-ho American who denounces any study that bursts their bubble.

No study will be even remotely completely accurate but the variables and investigative research gives data that leads to an overview.

The reason America is still filled with life is because its a massive country and 350 million people haven't been able to destroy everything thank goodness.
However, yes the national park system is good but the US also has the resources, time and money to allocate to its protection unlike Colombia yet.
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Old 07-27-2016, 05:53 AM
 
2,631 posts, read 2,049,050 times
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The very study you posted has a proportionate list as well. The US is not even on it. It is a developed nation with 320 million people. If the EU were sampled as a whole, it would be right there near the top. Any study that does not have China at the top is either flawed or biased.

As for your idea that the reason we still have fish and wildlife is due to size, I'd encourage you to brush up on the rules and regulations in regard to harvest limits that are generally respected, save some loser poachers. Other than Canada, I've never been to a place that is a better steward of its parks, wildlife and fisheries. Many fisheries and animals have been brought back from the brink and flourish today. There are sad stories too and it's hardly perfect, but overall there is far better environmental management than just about anyplace else.
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Old 07-27-2016, 07:53 AM
 
Location: London, UK
4,096 posts, read 3,719,938 times
Reputation: 2900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Return2FL View Post
The very study you posted has a proportionate list as well. The US is not even on it. It is a developed nation with 320 million people. If the EU were sampled as a whole, it would be right there near the top. Any study that does not have China at the top is either flawed or biased.

As for your idea that the reason we still have fish and wildlife is due to size, I'd encourage you to brush up on the rules and regulations in regard to harvest limits that are generally respected, save some loser poachers. Other than Canada, I've never been to a place that is a better steward of its parks, wildlife and fisheries. Many fisheries and animals have been brought back from the brink and flourish today. There are sad stories too and it's hardly perfect, but overall there is far better environmental management than just about anyplace else.
1. I never said the EU has done any better - you're going off on another tangent with this one.

2. I said that the parks and wildlife system is good so your whining is for nothing.

3. Re: the study please send a postage stamp and letter of complaint to Adelaide, Australia.

4. You missed the main point completely, the US has the resources, money and some political will to place into conservation.
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