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Chile got back on track and reestablished democracy with pinochet. Precisely what Venezuela needs
If you truly study the economics of that period in detail, it is a fallacy to attribute the economic stability all to Pinochet's government. Also, his government disappeared innocent people and traumatized a generation of people, many having to flee to survive. Sounds wonderful.
As someone else mentioned, no extreme is good, regardless of the political leaning.
Extremes are bad either way.
In Latin America it doesn't matter who is president. They make themselves and his friends richer
The situation was horrible in Venezuela before Chavez was elected. People seem to forget that. However what did Chavez do? Sure he threw some bones to the poor people but his friends are filthy rich now with homes in Miami, NY and Europe. The level of corruption is the same, the only thing that changed is that wealth was transferred from one party to another.
I also find it funny how Venezuelans cross the border to buy groceries in Colombia but they go back to Venezuela because they don't want to lose their jobs or their benefits. Obviously the situation can't be that bad if they are going back to Venezuela. They only want to move to the US because the US is a rich country, not because it is not socialist, otherwise they would be moving in droves to Colombia.
Pretty much. Also from what I have heard from Venezuelan friends, they put systems into practice that were just dumb. For example, they funneled money from scientific research in universities to vocational schools that just taught people 'work skills' and Chavista ideology. They really didn't give people any skills that helped because the job development wasn't there. I'm sure they enacted many incompetent programs like that, wasting millions of dollars.
Chile got back on track and reestablished democracy with pinochet. Precisely what Venezuela needs
he didn't want to cede power, it was the civil population that forced the return to democracy after 16 years of a ruthless dictatoship.
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Originally Posted by Sugah Ray
Extremes are bad either way.
In Latin America it doesn't matter who is president. They make themselves and his friends richer
The situation was horrible in Venezuela before Chavez was elected. People seem to forget that. However what did Chavez do? Sure he threw some bones to the poor people but his friends are filthy rich now with homes in Miami, NY and Europe. The level of corruption is the same, the only thing that changed is that wealth was transferred from one party to another.
corruption is probably much worse than ever, inflation and other problems, too.
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I also find it funny how Venezuelans cross the border to buy groceries in Colombia but they go back to Venezuela because they don't want to lose their jobs or their benefits. Obviously the situation can't be that bad if they are going back to Venezuela. They only want to move to the US because the US is a rich country, not because it is not socialist, otherwise they would be moving in droves to Colombia.
they aren't only moving to the US (which, in any case, is not an small thing, because the Venezuela community in the USA was much smaller 10 years ago). There are tens of thousands Venezuelan immigrants in Colombia (some people even say they are already hundreds of thousands, but probably not), the vast majority of them arrived in the past few years. And, as other forum members have said, they are moving by thousands to Panama, and to many other countries like Ecuador, Peru, Chile, Argentina, Mexico, Spain, etc.
Last edited by joacocanal; 10-16-2016 at 07:02 PM..
Anyway the thread is about refugees, not about who can fortunally still can go just for shopping.
Obviously if some need to go to another country just to go to the supermarket, it is because many are starving.
Not even mentioning those who are being arrested, killed, etc.
Ough, I envy them. Look how wonderful their supermarkets are. How can anyone complain? Ough! The quality of life of the everyday people has improved so much after Socialism. Look what they have to do to buy some food:
Just got to love it! The rise of Hugo Chavez was the best thing since sliced bread! lol
Obviously these Venezuelan leaders don't know how to handle an economy or do diplomatic relations. Price controls was beyond stupid in my opinion. Going against the US & Europe so openly was a really stupid move.
But let's not kid ourselves. Most of the things we see in international news is political propaganda. I don't see anyone reporting here in the US how Colombia lets indigenous children die of hunger. Sure Colombia has such a good relationship with the US and Europe but in the end do Colombians see those benefits? Their children are dying. I know it happens because I watch Colombian news networks and they report these deaths almost every day.
Here in the US everybody thinks Colombia is so much better. I'm not so sure about that. It's basically a bunch of poor powerless countries full of corruption regardless of type of governments.
Now let me ask you... how many children have died in Venezuela in the past 8 years?
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The IACHR decision was prompted by the documented deaths of 4770 Wayuu children during the past 8 years as a result of thirst, malnutrition and preventable disease. For their part, The Wayuu claim that over 14,000 children have died. In any case, these numbers are staggering for the 100,000 Wayuu who live in the communities covered by the IAHCHR decision. Just as remarkable as the dire situation facing The Wayuu is the almost total lack of press coverage regarding their situation. Thus, while the press covers the shortages in Venezuela nearly every day, and in a quite histrionic fashion which ignores the complexities and subtleties of the situation there, there is almost a total blackout of the real famine confronting The Wayuu of Colombia just over the border. And, it is this media blackout, even in the face of major rulings by both the IACHR and Colombia’s high court, which of course allows this famine to continue without pause
Last edited by Sugah Ray; 10-19-2016 at 11:42 PM..
Obviously these Venezuelan leaders don't know how to handle an economy or do diplomatic relations. Price controls was beyond stupid in my opinion. Going against the US & Europe so openly was a really stupid move.
But let's not kid ourselves. Most of the things we see in international news is political propaganda. I don't see anyone reporting here in the US how Colombia lets indigenous children die of hunger. Sure Colombia has such a good relationship with the US and Europe but in the end do Colombians see those benefits? Their children are dying. I know it happens because I watch Colombian news networks and they report these deaths almost every day.
Here in the US everybody thinks Colombia is so much better. I'm not so sure about that. It's basically a bunch of poor powerless countries full of corruption regardless of type of governments.
Now let me ask you... how many children have died in Venezuela in the past 8 years?
You're incredibly misinformed. The whole northern tip of South America (not just Colombia but also Venezuela) has gone through a severe drought for the past 3-4 years which has severely impacted the Wayuu communities that live there on both sides of the border. Just as many Wayuu people have been affected my malnutrition on the Venezuelan side as on the Colombian side, just that practically zero coverage has been given by the Venezuelan media just like what they did with Zika, when they denied there was Zika in Venezuela and then finally admitted there were only 4,000 cases when in fact medical professionals in the country said it was more like half a million, but those dissidents to the "Chavista state" were shut down.
It makes sense seeing as Brazil has the largest reported amount of Zika cases, Venezuela although in denial is second and the places with most Zika cases in Colombia are precisely the regions that border Venezuela such as Santander and Norte Santander.
I disagree that no media coverage has been given to the Wayuu plight in Colombia, even James Rodriguez runs a campaign "La Primera Gota", whereas in Venezuela they haven't even mentioned it when the same thing is happening within their borders regarding that community and TeleSur (the Chavista media) still insist it only happens in Colombia - a complete joke! Unfortunately it's a delicate situation, mother nature can be cruel and the Wayuus fierce nomadic and deliberately isolated lifestyle make it a difficult problem to combat. They're also a very discriminated group in Venezuela, I've heard so many disgusting remarks from the mouth of people I know from Maracaibo directed to the Wayuu.
It's the same leftist bulls*** here, somehow, for some leftist Colombians, what Chavismo is doing in Venezuela is excusable because "there are children dying in Colombia", or "there is corruption in Colombia too, and it's not worth seeing the mote in your brother's eye...".
The wayúu problem is one of the 5 things that has received the most media coverage in Colombia in the past year.
"I've heard so many disgusting remarks from the mouth of people I know from Maracaibo directed to the Wayuu."
Yes, me too, they don't even call them "wayúus" but "guajiros". "Esos coñoesumadre guajiros..."
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Originally Posted by Sugah Ray
Here in the US everybody thinks Colombia is so much better. I'm not so sure about that. It's basically a bunch of poor powerless countries full of corruption regardless of type of governments.
In many ways, it is, not necessarily because Colombia is doing super good, but because Venezuela is just sinking thanks to Maduro. In Colombia we are very worried about the economy not growing >3%, but only >2%; in Venezuela the economy will shrink 10%. Venezuela occupies one of the last places in the Corruption Perceptions Index; Colombia is in the middle of the chart.
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Now let me ask you... how many children have died in Venezuela in the past 8 years?
Coincidentially, a few days ago some media published a chronicle on how now Venezuela has an (estimated) children mortality rate that is higher than that of Syria: http://www.notiactual.com/venezuela-...ores-al-siria/
Last edited by joacocanal; 10-20-2016 at 11:20 AM..
"I've heard so many disgusting remarks from the mouth of people I know from Maracaibo directed to the Wayuu."
Yes, me too, they don't even call them "wayúus" but "guajiros". "Esos coñoesumadre guajiros..."
Yup, don't even respectively call them by their ethnicity but by what they wrongfully think is a derogatory term. It's such an ignorant way of thinking on so many levels.
Colombia has many many issues but at least a large chunk of the population is taking steps to improve the situation there. Every year democratic institutions are becoming stronger, the political debate more mature and corruption lessening even if only by baby steps.
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