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Old 03-16-2017, 06:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanfel View Post
I'm just saying, there may be places in the US where people are afraid to leave the bicycles unsecured in their front yards.
Of course, there are a number of places in the US where people wouldn't do such a thing. We have ghettos, like most countries. But what you said was: "I don't think this is true absolutely anywhere in the US", which I took to mean: it doesn't happen, absolutely anywhere in the US. I'll assume you misspoke and forget it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanfel View Post
And anyway,
Hehe, you're trying to say that the majority of people in Argentina will steal if given the opportunity? No, man. I acknowledge we have a problem with crime but to imply that the majority of Argentines are willing to steal if given the chance is too much. Of course it's not true.
There's a reason everyone in Argentina lives behind concrete walls, steel gates and barbed wire. It's not because a mere 20% of the people are thieves. It's because a large percentage of the population are thieves, be they professional, part-time or just opportunistic. You have to lock up your bike, not because a strange thief might happen to walk through the neighborhood, but because you know your neighbor will take it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanfel View Post
On your experience, yes. On reality... well, you would have to do a very large study and research to at least reach a conclusion more or les representative of reality.
Experience IS reality; I don't need to do a study to confirm what is patently obvious right in front of my face. Leftists like yourself rely on studies to convince themselves that the uncomfortable reality they see isn't actually real somehow. Well, it is real.
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Old 03-16-2017, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Montreal
828 posts, read 1,239,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhc1985 View Post
On topic, it's probable that non-murder crime rates don't correlate with murder rates, so that their figures would be closer (or at least not a fraction) to the ones from countries where murder rates are twice, three times, four times as large as Argentina's or Uruguay's, but I can't be sure...
That's exactly what I, as the OP, was trying to get at when asking my question. Seems to me that Argentina and Uruguay are kind of unusual among countries in having murder rates not correlate with non-murder crime rates, from all that I've read.

Maybe it's because Argentina and Uruguay have been relatively very late in seeing a sharp increase in crime that has long plagued many other Latin American countries; these two countries, from my understanding, used to be much safer.
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Old 03-18-2017, 03:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
Of course, there are a number of places in the US where people wouldn't do such a thing. We have ghettos, like most countries. But what you said was: "I don't think this is true absolutely anywhere in the US", which I took to mean: it doesn't happen, absolutely anywhere in the US. I'll assume you misspoke and forget it.
Reminder that country with 4 cities among the top 50 most violent of the World is USA, not Argentina. Deal with it, Americanian dude, your country is the one full of robbers and murders.
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Old 03-18-2017, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joacocanal View Post
Reminder that country with 4 cities among the top 50 most violent of the World is USA, not Argentina. Deal with it, Americanian dude, your country is the one full of robbers and murders.
Don't forget, though, that these cities are ranked with regard to the city/municipality proper, and in the United States such cities (with some exceptions) make up only a fraction of their total metropolitan areas, whereas many Latin American cities/municipalities containing their downtowns make up (almost) all the metropolitan area. For example, it's misleading to compare Detroit itself or Chicago itself or Baltimore itself or St. Louis itself to, say, Caracas or Fortaleza (Brazil) or San Pedro Sula (Honduras), all of which are even more dangerous than Argentinian cities. This is because while all of these cities have very high crime rates, these American examples cover a fraction of their metropolitan areas (in which most if not all the suburban areas are safer) where these Latin American examples cover a much larger percentage of their metropolitan areas (including suburban areas that, were they in the USA, would be quite safe). It's apples and oranges here.
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Old 03-19-2017, 12:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joacocanal View Post
Reminder that country with 4 cities among the top 50 most violent of the World is USA, not Argentina. Deal with it, Americanian dude, your country is the one full of robbers and murders.
Well, I could point to some frightening statistics from the worst areas in Argentina and assume they're representative of the entire country, but I wouldn't do something so foolish. You should refrain from doing the same.

The fact is, unlike Argentina, the US overall has a high-trust culture and a great deal of social capital. Being told that may very well offend you, but facts are stubborn things, and they don't care about your feelings.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yofie View Post
Don't forget, though, that these cities are ranked with regard to the city/municipality proper, and in the United States such cities (with some exceptions) make up only a fraction of their total metropolitan areas, whereas many Latin American cities/municipalities containing their downtowns make up (almost) all the metropolitan area. For example, it's misleading to compare Detroit itself or Chicago itself or Baltimore itself or St. Louis itself to, say, Caracas or Fortaleza (Brazil) or San Pedro Sula (Honduras), all of which are even more dangerous than Argentinian cities. This is because while all of these cities have very high crime rates, these American examples cover a fraction of their metropolitan areas (in which most if not all the suburban areas are safer) where these Latin American examples cover a much larger percentage of their metropolitan areas (including suburban areas that, were they in the USA, would be quite safe). It's apples and oranges here.
Not true. In the case of Colombia, Cali and Palmira are listed separately, despite of Palmira being a suburb of Cali. Medellín (which made out of the list recently) was included separately from the rest of its metro area, which makes for like half of the total population of it. And so on.


It's the same in all cities of the World, a few districts concentrate the most homicides. It's not misleading to compare Detroit city (700.000 people), Chicago (3 million), or Baltimore (620.000) with Caracas (2 million people), San Pedro Sula (700.000) or Fortaleza (2.5 million).




Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
Well, I could point to some frightening statistics from the worst areas in Argentina and assume they're representative of the entire country, but I wouldn't do something so foolish. You should refrain from doing the same.

The fact is, unlike Argentina, the US overall has a high-trust culture and a great deal of social capital. Being told that may very well offend you, but facts are stubborn things, and they don't care about your feelings.
nobody is talking about "worst areas", the USA is on average much more violent and segregated than any First World country; and it's the country with several cities among the most violent of the World, Argentina is not.

The US doesn't have a high-trust culture, it's a ****hole with constant spree killing attacks, it scores much worse than any other OECD country regarding pretty much every social index, in relation to its level of income, and even comparing it to countries with much lower income. And it's one of the few savage countries of the Western Hemisphere that still has death penalty. I'm completely sure that if Argentina had a similar income to that of the USA, it would be much better in just every aspect. You are right on the "facts" thing, and all of these are facts.

Last edited by joacocanal; 03-20-2017 at 12:18 PM..
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:43 AM
 
1,562 posts, read 1,481,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joacocanal View Post
nobody is talking about "worst areas", the USA is on average much more violent and segregated than any First World country; and it's the country with several cities among the most violent of the World, Argentina is not.
But yes you are. You're pointing to the 4 worst cities in the entire country and using that to extrapolate that Argentina is therefore safer than the US. As is the topic of the thread, we've already established that Argentina's murder rate is low. But what about when we look at robbery and other crimes? Lo and behold, on a per capita basis, Argentina ranks among the worst in the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joacocanal View Post
The US doesn't have a high-trust culture, it's a ****hole with constant spree killing attacks, it scores much worse than any other OECD country regarding pretty much every social index, in relation to its level of income, and even comparing it to countries with much lower income. And it's one of the few savage countries of the Western Hemisphere that still has death penalty. I'm completely sure that if Argentina had a similar income to that of the USA, it would be much better in just every aspect. You are right on the "facts" thing, and all of these are facts.
It's clear you don't know much about the US or American people. I'm wondering now if you've ever actually been there.

And why doesn't Argentina have a similar income? It's a country flush with resources, but among all of the other problems, they can't even keep products on their shelves, their utilities reliable, or their inflation under 35%. Yet you characterize the US as a ****hole?
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:33 AM
 
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Different kind of ****holes. Argentina because of populism/leftism. USA because of segregation, ignorance, bigotry etc.
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
Of course, there are a number of places in the US where people wouldn't do such a thing. We have ghettos, like most countries. But what you said was: "I don't think this is true absolutely anywhere in the US", which I took to mean: it doesn't happen, absolutely anywhere in the US. I'll assume you misspoke and forget it.
Yes, sorry. I meant to wrote "everywhere" rather than "anywhere". My bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
There's a reason everyone in Argentina lives behind concrete walls, steel gates and barbed wire.
I assume you intend this to mean that people live in fear of being robbed. I tell you, concrete walls in homes and much more common here than in the US, where homes, AFAIK, are mainly made of wood. So that has nothing to do with protecting yourself from robbers. Steel gates sound a bit rarer to me, and I see barbed wire from time to time but is not really that common in my experience. And, as regards your comment, you say "EVERYONE" lives... well, seems you like sweeping generalizations. It says a lot of you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
It's not because a mere 20% of the people are thieves. It's because a large percentage of the population are thieves, be they professional, part-time or just opportunistic. You have to lock up your bike, not because a strange thief might happen to walk through the neighborhood, but because you know your neighbor will take it.
No. That only happens in ghettos and the like. If you live in a normal place, you don't lock up your bike because your neighbor will take; you lock it up because someone from somewhere else will take it. That is my experience at least. And, as Mhc1985 says, this happens in big cities and surrounding areas, not in small towns generally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
Experience IS reality; I don't need to do a study to confirm what is patently obvious right in front of my face.
Have you ever been to Argentina? If the answer is no, then I don't see what kind of evidence is in front of your face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
Leftists like yourself rely on studies to convince themselves that the uncomfortable reality they see isn't actually real somehow. Well, it is real.
Haha. So I'm a leftist. And then you say you don't jump to conclusions.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
840 posts, read 3,041,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor View Post
And why doesn't Argentina have a similar income? It's a country flush with resources, but among all of the other problems, they can't even keep products on their shelves, their utilities reliable, or their inflation under 35%. Yet you characterize the US as a ****hole?
Where did you get the idea that we are short of products? That's definitely not true.
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