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I never said the one drop rule applies. However at the same time non Black Latinos aren't going to go out of their way to differeniate between multiple shades of Black. Alicia is MORENA, just as Snipes is MORENO.
That is what I said, which is not the same as saying there is an one drop rule in Latin America.
That depends on the country. Someone who looks like Alicia who straightens her hair would not be considered the same as Snipes. Not to mention, morena doesn't necessarily mean black in term of so-called race.
But nonetheless, those benefits are available for some people.
Americans can stay in the military until the retire if they want to, and many do make a full career out of it. Of course if someone joins the military at age 18 and retires 20 years later there is still a lot they can do.
It's not that the scale of the military in Brazil is smaller so it has obviously not helped the same number of people.
For university studies, do they give grants or scholarships, may they borrow money or does everyone have to pay in cash?
When I was in Colombia, for example, the Colombian government was paying for decommissioned FARC members to go to university.
Here in Brazil traditionally we had only few public universities (free) like Universidade de Sao Paulo, very good universities but with hard admission test and huge competition, in some courses almost 100 people per vacancy because that the normal was only rich students, from the best private schools (and expensive) being approved in that publics universities.
Private universities were only affordable for at least middle class and some low middle class student from family who struggle for keep the student there. This is the key of the inequality in Brazil.
Only in Lula government started a big national program of grant scholarships for millions of low income students (PROUNI FIES), opened more public universities and reserved vacancy in public universities for low income students, pardos people and Amerindians.
My English teacher served in Vietnam, so I know how it works in USA. When they back of wars and leave the army they continuous with a lot of benefits and it make sense because they fought in a war defending the country.
Here in Brazil if they leave the army before the necessary years of service for retirement they just get the education and profession if they study in the army
Militaries stud in militaries public universities inside the army, they can study civil professions as engineering as example or study specific courses for growing up in their military career.
Agreed. This is the cold reality. I am Native American. I know the history of Colonial Spain is harsh from the 1500s to 1900s. The Latin American countries of Central and South America generally have a "casta" or caste system based on degree of European blood and appearance.
I first learned of the West African genome in Latin America while studying the history of Colonial Spain. In rural Arizona, I went to HS that was about 1/3 Mexican American. In HS football games, it was rare to see African Americans except with a couple of HS near Phoenix. In those games, the Mexican teens were often brutally racist and would excessively use the "N" word (along with the white teens) before these games with African Americans. I recall the raw intensity while sitting in that bus load of bigoted teens of rural AZ. The racism was blatant - this is why I often have mixed feelings about "80s" nostalgia. I know what it was really like - racism was more prevalent.
But not to digress, the historical reality is that many modern Mexicans are actually part West African. The history of Mexico is such that most of the indigenous population was killed off or decimated by diseases such as smallpox. In one of the first "battles" between the Aztec Empire and the Spanish "Conquistadors" the Aztecs actually won. But the Spanish expedition had an African slave infected with smallpox who was left behind. That literally killed off most of the Aztecs in that area - millions of people. The popular image in Spanish culture is of the brave, stronger, genetically superior Spanish conquistador in a suite of armor killing dozens of indigenous warriors alone. But realistically, many of the warriors were sickened badly by Old World disease like smallpox. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...lpox_in_Mexico
The remnants of indigenous populations were often forced into slavery, but the populations were so widely destroyed that the Spaniards decided to import West African slaves into ports like Vera Cruz. The population of West Africans was so large that they outnumbered the Spanish colonists - mostly men. Needless to say, intermixing was common, and the Spaniards typically had children with the African women. Over hundreds of years, the African population "blended" in with the rest of the Mexican population. Today, due to the "casta" I have never met a Mexican who is willing to admit being part West African. But genetically, the West African genome is present in Mexico very widely. The same occurs in Central and South America for many countries. African Roots Stretch Deep Into Mexico : Mexico History
Ironically, the racial tension I noted persists. Modern Los Angeles has a gang war between Mexicans and African gangs. I know many Mexicans from HS who would be furious to see that the young and beautiful Selena Gomez has a black boyfriend from Ethiopia. But historically, she is probably already part West African due to the complicated history of Mexico. Ethiopia was also part of the Roman Empire - hence many are Roman Catholic dating back to that time.
The Spanish Army relentlessly destroyed many indigenous tribes for hundreds of years but were driven out of Texas by Comanches and Kiowas. The popular belief is that the defeat of General Santa Ana of Mexico drove Mexicans out of Texas. But his battles were located in South Texas. In North and Central Texas the Mexican Army had already been driven out by Comanches and Kiowas or Prarie Apaches. But as with the Aztecs, smallpox destroyed most of the Comanches by 1850 by about 90% including some members of the chief's family, Quanah Parker. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comanc...%93Mexico_Wars
The Navajos and Apache also drove them out of the Four Corners Region. The Mexican-Apache War lasted for hundreds of years. Mexico had a slave trade on Apaches into the early 1900s. The war was fierce. At times, the Mexican government imposed a scalp bounty system to promote genocide of indigenous populations. Ironically, modern Hollywood films often show indigenous groups as the "savages who scalp white people". But in real life, the Spanish government officially gave out pesos for indigenous scalps in a bounty system. The Scalp Industry
I doubt you would find many Latin Americans who would willingly admit being part West African even in the face of DNA evidence.
where did you get this number? No much Brazilians do DNA ancestry test as in the USA
That depends on the country. Someone who looks like Alicia who straightens her hair would not be considered the same as Snipes. Not to mention, morena doesn't necessarily mean black in term of so-called race.
No, it doesn't and I never said it only meant Black. That's CaribNY.
Penelope Cruz, who is white is called morena in some contexts. Depending on the contexts a native person could be called morena, or anyone with dark hair and dark eyes.
But I'm not really interested in resurrecting the same debates.
In the broader Spanish speaking world, Blacks are not the majority and people don't go out of their way to distinguish between different shades of Black. That is what I was saying.
Now on to the next subject. All posting Colombians disagreed with CaribNY and saw Alicia as morena, which he neglects to mention. He's never been to Colombia, and was mouthing off on a place he's never been to.
Here in Brazil traditionally we had only few public universities (free) like Universidade de Sao Paulo, very good universities but with hard admission test and huge competition, in some courses almost 100 people per vacancy because that the normal was only rich students, from the best private schools (and expensive) being approved in that publics universities.
Private universities were only affordable for at least middle class and some low middle class student from family who struggle for keep the student there. This is the key of the inequality in Brazil.
Only in Lula government started a big national program of grant scholarships for millions of low income students (PROUNI FIES), opened more public universities and reserved vacancy in public universities for low income students, pardos people and Amerindians.
My English teacher served in Vietnam, so I know how it works in USA. When they back of wars and leave the army they continuous with a lot of benefits and it make sense because they fought in a war defending the country.
Here in Brazil if they leave the army before the necessary years of service for retirement they just get the education and profession if they study in the army
Militaries stud in militaries public universities inside the army, they can study civil professions as engineering as example or study specific courses for growing up in their military career.
So because of this many Blacks, Natives, and poor people go to to universities? Has this translated into professional or middle class status for these graduates?
So because of this many Blacks, Natives, and poor people go to to universities? Has this translated into professional or middle class status for these graduates?
Yes, poor people and color skin people now are almost 50% in universities. I think they are viewed as professional but middle class I am not sure, few years yet for develop career and accumulate patrimony.
where did you get this number? No much Brazilians do DNA ancestry test as in the USA
It isn't as uncommon as you think in Brazil there are hundreds of Brazilians active in genetic genealogy some of them are friends of mine and I can tell you that West African percentages of 10%-15% are common among Brazilians that identify as white and some of them at 20% didn't know they had black ancestors.
It isn't as uncommon as you think in Brazil there are hundreds of Brazilians active in genetic genealogy some of them are friends of mine and I can tell you that West African percentages of 10%-15% are common among Brazilians that identify as white and some of them at 20% didn't know they had black ancestors.
Any way very small number statistically. I don’t believe with 10% or 20% they don’t have some traits being mostly ‘’Europeans genes regressive’’… what happens is that most people don’t know identify for example a kind of nose or lips ‘’aliens’’ in Europeans IMO.
In many Latin American countries, "indigenous" is used to refer to people who are literally Native Americans living in the mountains or the jungle, so if you do not do that, you will probably refer to yourself as mestizo. You have people who look very very indigenous and have family members speaking Quechua or Aymara or an Amazonian language, and they will still consider themselves mestizo more than anything. Because of negative connotations, both indigenous and African heritage are both undercounted
It isn't as uncommon as you think in Brazil there are hundreds of Brazilians active in genetic genealogy some of them are friends of mine and I can tell you that West African percentages of 10%-15% are common among Brazilians that identify as white and some of them at 20% didn't know they had black ancestors.
I have been following genetic studies and tested myself for already a decade, here in Brazil, and also at Family Tree DNA and on 23andme, besides sharing results and communicating with already over a thousand people, and I have never seen that happening (people from Brazil saying to me they are "white" or anything of that sort).
Has any Brazilian identified to you as "white"? I am almost entirely colonial Brazilian (having just one ancestor who arrived here after our independence, 1/32 non colonial), tracing back to 1500 (the year of the discovery of Brazil), having scored ~95% "European" on 23andme, and I do not identify as "white" nor as a Portuguese descendant, just Brazilian, I repeat: Brazilian. "White", "pardo", "black" are just stupid labels invented by the colonisers and they served them in their exploitation framework.
I remember just one person who opened up somewhat that way, a Brazilian from Rio Grande do Norte, Northeast Brazil, who scored over >90% "european" on 23andme and who said to me he considers himself just "mixed". You also forgot to mention the majority of Brazilians tested on 23andme and on Family Tree DNA tend to score over 80% European, contrary to the misrepresenting stereotypes, and unlike the vast majority of other Latin American nations. By the way, I myself come from a poor background too, from the deep rural interior of Brazil.
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